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Old 05-24-2013, 11:00 AM   #46
greymatter
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Default Re: MJ's record without a HOF teammate

Quote:
Originally Posted by jzek
Jordan = 6 out of 6 in the Finals

Grossly overstated when put into context. That context being that his teams were the favorites against every Finals opponent he faced. Only the 92-93 Phoenix Suns had a decent shot at winning a series against them.

Only reason those Barkley led Suns never won is because his last prime years were hindered by a groin injury and dislocated shoulder in the 94 and 95 playoffs.
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Old 05-24-2013, 11:01 AM   #47
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Default Re: MJ's record without a HOF teammate




Pippen, traded for Olden Polynice and turned into a HOF by Jordan.


What's the Lebrontard point again?
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Old 05-24-2013, 11:12 AM   #48
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Default Re: MJ's record without a HOF teammate

lebron with 2 HOF teammates in their primes = getting outscored by Jason Terry in the NBA finals. I think that's alot worse than what the OP mentioned.
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Old 05-24-2013, 11:13 AM   #49
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Default Re: MJ's record without a HOF teammate

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Originally Posted by greymatter
Grossly overstated when put into context. That context being that his teams were the favorites against every Finals opponent he faced. Only the 92-93 Phoenix Suns had a decent shot at winning a series against them.

Only reason those Barkley led Suns never won is because his last prime years were hindered by a groin injury and dislocated shoulder in the 94 and 95 playoffs.

The Bulls were favored in every Finals match up because they had the best player in the league, who happened to also be the best Finals performer perhaps in NBA history on top of that.

Give Jordan the equivalent supporting cast of Magic/Drexler/Barkley/Payton/Malone and he would still beat those five guys.
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Old 05-24-2013, 11:13 AM   #50
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Default Re: MJ's record without a HOF teammate

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Originally Posted by dh144498
lebron with 2 HOF teammates in their primes = getting outscored by Jason Terry in the NBA finals. I think that's alot worse than what the OP mentioned.

And I'm sure that the Heat would trade Lebron straight-up for Terry today, too.
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Old 05-24-2013, 11:17 AM   #51
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Default Re: MJ's record without a HOF teammate

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Originally Posted by greymatter
Lebron's 2nd and 3rd were a chucking Larry Hughes (40%fg) and Ilgauskas when he first went to the finals. Jordan and Kobe wouldn't have had a snowball's chance in hell of managing that. Bird could have. Magic possibly.

Given how weak the East was when LeBron got to the Finals with the Cavs, sure I think he could've made the Finals with Hughes/Z.

The Bulls pushed the back to back champion Pistons to 6 and 7 games before Pippen was really all that great.
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Old 05-24-2013, 11:21 AM   #52
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Default Re: MJ's record without a HOF teammate

Quote:
Originally Posted by jzek
Jordan = 6 out of 6 in the Finals
Kobe = 5 out of 7 in the Finals

Jordan = 6 FMVPs out of 6 Finals trip
Kobe = 2 FMVPs out of 7 Finals trip (either got carried by Shaq or lost)

LeBron = 0.5 out of 3 in the Finals
LeBron = 0.5 FMVP out of 3 Finals trips (couldn't win without 2 other All-Star/HoFers)


Easy



I swear you LeBron dick riders are the most butthurt fans in the entire world. Nothing can be said about LeBron without you guys throwing the 2 GOATs in the discussion and making yourselves look like idiots. No comparison. Please stop while you're far behind.
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Old 05-24-2013, 11:23 AM   #53
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Default Re: MJ's record without a HOF teammate

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Originally Posted by LAZERUSS
And I'm sure that the Heat would trade Lebron straight-up for Terry today, too.



what does that have anything to do with anything? OP likes to point out things done with/without HOF teammates, I followed the agenda.
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Old 05-24-2013, 11:25 AM   #54
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Default Re: MJ's record without a HOF teammate

OT: Where's YMF?
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Old 05-24-2013, 11:26 AM   #55
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Default Re: MJ's record without a HOF teammate

Quote:
Originally Posted by Soundwave
Given how weak the East was when LeBron got to the Finals with the Cavs, sure I think he could've made the Finals with Hughes/Z.

The Bulls pushed the back to back champion Pistons to 6 and 7 games before Pippen was really all that great.
Jordan would not make playoffs with pre 08-09 Cleveland. This is not East with 11 teams anymore
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Old 05-24-2013, 11:29 AM   #56
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Default Re: MJ's record without a HOF teammate

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Originally Posted by Trollsmasher
Jordan would not make playoffs with pre 08-09 Cleveland. This is not East with 11 teams anymore



There's a reason it was called The Leastern Conference for several years.
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Old 05-24-2013, 11:31 AM   #57
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Default Re: MJ's record without a HOF teammate

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trollsmasher
Jordan would not make playoffs with pre 08-09 Cleveland. This is not East with 11 teams anymore

Yeah, you're right. This is the East where the Bobcats, Pistons, Magic, Cavaliers, Wizards, 76ers and Bucks all play. This is the era where teams can inflate their win records by facing these garbage teams 3-4 times per season. Yup. Exactly. The era of 11 teams with the majority having Hall-of-Famers on them is over.
Now is the era of teaming up with your competition because you know you can't win without doing so.
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Old 05-24-2013, 11:33 AM   #58
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Default Re: MJ's record without a HOF teammate

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scholar
Yeah, you're right. This is the East where the Bobcats, Pistons, Magic, Cavaliers, Wizards, 76ers and Bucks all play. This is the era where teams can inflate their win records by facing these garbage teams 3-4 times per season. Yup. Exactly. The era of 11 teams with the majority having Hall-of-Famers on them is over.
Now is the era of teaming up with your competition because you know you can't win without doing so.
True, I forgot that MJ was the true king of the "expansion era". No one in history feasted more on bad teams while still crying over the beating he received from the Pistons
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Old 05-24-2013, 11:43 AM   #59
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Default Re: MJ's record without a HOF teammate

Quote:
Originally Posted by Soundwave
The Bulls were favored in every Finals match up because they had the best player in the league, who happened to also be the best Finals performer perhaps in NBA history on top of that.

Give Jordan the equivalent supporting cast of Magic/Drexler/Barkley/Payton/Malone and he would still beat those five guys.

Magic's 91 team: Uh, no. Jordan couldn't make Vlade look like a superstar like Magic did when they knocked off Portland. Jordan's game can't elevate his teammates'.

Drexler's 92 team: Possibly. Mike did everything Drexler did except better. Would still take 92 Pip, Grant, Armstrong over Terry Porter, Kersey, Buck Williams any day of the week.

Barkley's 93 team: Not only no but hells no. Jordan's ball dominance renders KJ almost useless. Also played the same position as Dan Majerle and Richard Dumas. Their production would be null as well. Then he'd be stuck trying to win with an overthehill Tom Chambers, Mark West, and Oliver Miller. Completely laughable.

Payton's teams: Possibly. Mike was better than Payton at every aspect of the game.

Malone's teams: Completely laughable. Stockton would have become this year's version of Steve Nash. Hornacek played the same position. Fat chance he'd win with Antoine Carr and Greg Ostertag as his bigs.

In any case. Jordan needed the right team built around him to win. If you assembled comparable talent, but not the right mix, he was never going anywhere.
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Old 05-24-2013, 11:51 AM   #60
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Default Re: MJ's record without a HOF teammate

Quote:
Originally Posted by greymatter
Magic's 91 team: Uh, no. Jordan couldn't make Vlade look like a superstar like Magic did when they knocked off Portland. Jordan's game can't elevate his teammates'.

Drexler's 92 team: Possibly. Mike did everything Drexler did except better. Would still take 92 Pip, Grant, Armstrong over Terry Porter, Kersey, Buck Williams any day of the week.

Barkley's 93 team: Not only no but hells no. Jordan's ball dominance renders KJ almost useless. Also played the same position as Dan Majerle and Richard Dumas. Their production would be null as well. Then he'd be stuck trying to win with an overthehill Tom Chambers, Mark West, and Oliver Miller. Completely laughable.

Payton's teams: Possibly. Mike was better than Payton at every aspect of the game.

Malone's teams: Completely laughable. Stockton would have become this year's version of Steve Nash. Hornacek played the same position. Fat chance he'd win with Antoine Carr and Greg Ostertag as his bigs.

In any case. Jordan needed the right team built around him to win. If you assembled comparable talent, but not the right mix, he was never going anywhere.

The Bulls weren't necessarily the "ideal" mix. Scoring depth if Scottie decided to poop the bed was always suspect causing Jordan to have to carry more of the individual load than Magic/Bird/Isiah ever had to for prolonged periods of time.

Never got to play with a really talented offensive big either.

Pippen had entire playoff runs where he shot less than 40% for freaking example. Fun fact: In the second threepeat, Scottie Pippen never once shot over 41% for the playoffs, including a 39% shooting clip in the 95-96 playoffs.

Last edited by Soundwave : 05-24-2013 at 11:54 AM.
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