Most versatile defenders ever

[sdot_thadon]

Was in a thread derailing debate and this came up. Who are the most VERSATILE defenders of all time? This isn't a thread to determine who's best, just who has the most utility. Who has the most facets of defense and can guard the most posistions, in short who can you use the most different ways in any given system?

1. Pippen
2.Kg
3. Rodman

And after that it gets fuzzy, I guess I'd go

4.Lebron
5.Mj/several others, not too sure about this spot because I feel like I forgot or overlooked someone.

Just a quick rundown, nothing definitive. I'm not really familiar with the defensive standouts pre late 80's. Am I missing anyone that leaps up the list? Who do you have as the most versatile?

[MP.Trey]

Your list is pretty good. I'd add Shawn Marion as a honorable mention.

[CavaliersFTW]

These guys are as versatile and respected as all-around defensive players as anyone you mentioned, they just don't get mentioned a lot because "old":

Gus Johnson

Satch Sanders

Dave DeBusschere

Bobby Jones

[sdot_thadon]

Your list is pretty good. I'd add Shawn Marion as a honorable mention.

Yeah, totally forgot about matrix. I think it's pretty tough to be able to handle the post and go out to the perimeter and vise versa. Marion would maybe bump Mj out of that 5 spot and push Lebron for the 4th.

These guys are as versatile and respected as all-around defensive players as anyone you mentioned, they just don't get mentioned a lot because "old":

Gus Johnson

Satch Sanders

Dave DeBusschere

Bobby Jones

I forgot Bobby Jones for sure, not real familiar with the capabilities of the other guys. Care to shed a bit of light on them Cavs? We're they perimeter guys, post guys, or both?

[JT123]

How the hell do you have KG over Lebron?
Lebron can shut down every position from elite pg's like Rose to dominant centers like Big Al. You honestly think KG could shut down elite guards like Rose and Parker in the playoffs the way Lebron has?

[bizil]

Rodman
KG
Pippen
Bobby Jones
Kirilenko
Bron
Marion
Anthony Mason
Manimal
Josh Smith

I think these are guys who can defend four positions good to great. Of course u can throw in other guys. But these 10 guys came to my mind first. If u are looking for guys who can defend the three perimeter positions, the following list are still very versatile. But they don't defend the power positions like the other list of guys:

MJ
Cooper
Moncrief
Kobe
Pressey
Bowen
Payton
Kidd
Clyde Frazier
Wade

[Levity]

How the hell do you have KG over Lebron?
Lebron can shut down every position from elite pg's like Rose to dominant centers like Big Al. You honestly think KG could shut down elite guards like Rose and Parker in the playoffs the way Lebron has?

i bet current KG, the one who rocks a life alert necklace in practice, could have guarded Iggy better in the finals.

[CavaliersFTW]

Yeah, totally forgot about matrix. I think it's pretty tough to be able to handle the post and go out to the perimeter and vise versa. Marion would maybe bump Mj out of that 5 spot and push Lebron for the 4th.



I forgot Bobby Jones for sure, not real familiar with the capabilities of the other guys. Care to shed a bit of light on them Cavs? We're they perimeter guys, post guys, or both?

Well the premise of your thread was versatility so I only mentioned guys who were respected defenders of "both".

Otherwise I'd have mentioned guys like Bill Russell, Nate Thurmond, Jerry West, Walt Frazier, KC Jones etc - who were also "elite" defensive players themselves though more focused on either perimeter players, or paint and rim protection.

The guys I mentioned were all elite defensive forwards so the area of floor or assignments they'd be left to defend in a game could have been anyone, anywhere. Gus Johnson for example guarded Oscar Robertson a lot. Then, years later, Gus, due to his freak status strength and athleticism and defensive prowess, was actually also assigned to defend 7 foot 2 Artis Gilmore in an ABA Finals. There's footage of him battling in the post against Wilt Chamberlain too. Not saying he did "well" against big centers, or little guards, but he is always cited by the elite offensive players of that era (Oscar and Baylor) as being one of the top defensive players of that era against them, and his assignments ranging anywhere from guards to dominating centers speaks for itself. Earl Monroe actually says he's possibly the best defensive forward 'ever' at least as far as he's concerned.

DeBusschere from what I've seen was like an equally strong though less athletic Gus. Probably didn't get assigned to guards as much as Gus could have, though still probably was flexible from shooting guard or small forward up to centers on certain possessions. Highly respected defensive player of his era.

Satch probably never went up against centers but he was a power forward to small forward and probably could rotate onto guards if he needed to as well. He's also mentioned by Elgin as one of the best defenders against him.

Those are just the three forwards from that 60's to 70's era that are always first to be mentioned in defensive conversations. And I know at least Gus in particular guarded virtually every position at some point in his career.

[sdot_thadon]

How the hell do you have KG over Lebron?
Lebron can shut down every position from elite pg's like Rose to dominant centers like Big Al. You honestly think KG could shut down elite guards like Rose and Parker in the playoffs the way Lebron has?

Because KG is just a better defender out right, and in addition he was able to guard the perimeter at his best.

[Uncle Drew]

According to ISH; Tristan Thompson.

[sdot_thadon]

Well the premise of your thread was versatility so I only mentioned guys who were respected defenders of "both".

Otherwise I'd have mentioned guys like Bill Russell, Nate Thurmond, Jerry West, Walt Frazier, KC Jones etc - who were also "elite" defensive players themselves though more focused on either perimeter players, or paint and rim protection.

The guys I mentioned were all elite defensive forwards so the area of floor or assignments they'd be left to defend in a game could have been anyone, anywhere. Gus Johnson for example guarded Oscar Robertson a lot. Then, years later, Gus, due to his freak status strength and athleticism and defensive prowess, was actually also assigned to defend 7 foot 2 Artis Gilmore in an ABA Finals. There's footage of him battling in the post against Wilt Chamberlain too. Not saying he did "well" against big centers, or little guards, but he is always cited by the elite offensive players of that era (Oscar and Baylor) as being one of the top defensive players of that era against them, and his assignments ranging anywhere from guards to dominating centers speaks for itself. Earl Monroe actually says he's possibly the best defensive forward 'ever' at least as far as he's concerned.

DeBusschere from what I've seen was like an equally strong though less athletic Gus. Probably didn't get assigned to guards as much as Gus could have, though still probably was flexible from shooting guard or small forward up to centers on certain possessions. Highly respected defensive player of his era.

Satch probably never went up against centers but he was a power forward to small forward and probably could rotate onto guards if he needed to as well. He's also mentioned by Elgin as one of the best defenders against him.

Those are just the three forwards from that 60's to 70's era that are always first to be mentioned in defensive conversations. And I know at least Gus in particular guarded virtually every position at some point in his career.

Cool, thanks for the descriptions. In your opinion would any of those guys supplant the first 5 or 6 mentioned? (OP + marion)

[CavaliersFTW]

Here's my film of Gus Johnson:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NHcrG6gfJhI

Oscar Robertson sums it up best "He could play against much much bigger players"

My research tells me Gus was 6 foot 4 and 3/4 without shoes (same height as Kobe Bryant, MJ, Charles Barkley, Oscar Robertson etc) but if you look at film he has LONG long arms like Barkley had and explosive leaping ability and strength that help him play bigger. At 235lbs Gus Johnson was built like a trimmed down Barkley (Barkley at his slimmest was about 250), or jacked up Michael Jordan (who played about about 218).

[sdot_thadon]

Here's my film of Gus Johnson:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NHcrG6gfJhI

Oscar Robertson sums it up best "He could play against much much bigger players"

My research tells me Gus was 6 foot 4 and 3/4 without shoes (same height as Kobe Bryant, MJ, Charles Barkley, Oscar Robertson etc) but if you look at film he has LONG long arms like Barkley had and explosive leaping ability and strength that help him play bigger. At 235lbs Gus Johnson was built like a trimmed down Barkley (Barkley at his slimmest was about 250), or jacked up Michael Jordan (who played about about 218).

Nice vid, Sounds like he belongs in the top 5 of the list. On a side note he went to high school with thurmond? Akron makes some strong kids.

[Rocketswin2013]

Shane Battier deserves mention.

[bizil]

Shane Battier deserves mention.

He sure does! At his peak, capable of defending four positions good to great! A huge part of the Heat's success was having three great defenders in Shane, Bron, and D Wade.