Are the Spurs about to end "hero ball" ?

[sportjames23]

Unless this Spurs team wins the next 3 championships, I wouldn't entertain the idea that superstar led teams are dead.

In the last 34 years we have seen exactly 5 teams win championships without having what I consider to be a top 3 player in the league. The team may still be stacked like the 08 Celtics, or the back to back Pistons, but there is no top 3 player for that season on the team.

Great players almost always win championships. That's why teams tank for loaded lottery classes. They're hoping for transcendent talent. They're hoping to draft the next Magic, Duncan or Jordan. They want a guy that will stick around for the next 15 years with that franchise that players will come to play with.

2013 - Miami Heat - LeBron James
2012 - Miami Heat - LeBron James
2011 - Dallas Mavericks - Dirk Nowitzki
2010 - LA Lakers - Kobe Bryant
2009 - LA Lakers - Kobe Bryant
2008 - Boston Celtics - TEAM Ball
2007 - San Antonio Spurs - TEAM Ball
2006 - Miami Heat - Referees
2005 - San Antonio Spurs - Tim Duncan
2004 - Detroit Pistons - TEAM Ball
2003 - San Antonio Spurs - Tim Duncan
2002 - LA Lakers - Shaquille O'Neal
2001 - LA Lakers - Shaquille O'Neal
2000 - LA Lakers - Shaquilles O'Neal
1999 - San Antonio Spurs - Tim Duncan
1998 - Chicago Bulls - Michael Jordan
1997 - Chicago Bulls - Michael Jordan
1996 - Chicago Bulls - Michael Jordan
1995 - Houston Rockets - Hakeem Olajuwon
1994 - Houston Rockets - Hakeem Olajuwon
1993 - Chicago Bulls - Michael Jordan
1992 - Chicago Bulls - Michael Jordan
1991 - Chicago Bulls - Michael Jordan
1990 - Detroit Pistons - TEAM Ball
1989 - Detroit Pistons - TEAM Ball
1988 - LA Lakers - Magic Johnson
1987 - LA Lakers - Magic Johnson
1986 - Boston Celtics - Larry Bird
1985 - LA Lakers - Magic Johnson
1984 - Boston Celtics - Larry Bird
1983 - Philadelphia 76ers - Moses Malone
1982 - LA Lakers - Magic Johnson
1981 - Boston Celtics - Larry Bird
1980 - LA Lakers - Magic Johnson

Good list, but I'd say those Lakers, Celtics and Sixers teams played team ball. Even as dominant as Moses was, the Sixers still played team ball. Same goes for LA and Boston re: Magic and Bird.

[livinglegend]

what a bad display of basketball knowledge by members on this thread! They are saying some teams won without playing team ball.

[Victoire]

No, they don't have a superstar. Duncan has been our best player over the past two years. If there is one it's him (though, again, he's not a superstar, neither is Parker).

Hero ball will never die though.

Stop it englishman, Parker was spurs best player last year, no question about it.

[Akrazotile]

No, they don't have a superstar. Duncan has been our best player over the past two years. If there is one it's him (though, again, he's not a superstar, neither is Parker).

Hero ball will never die though.

Everyday fans really dont LIKE concepts that cant be attached to a face (preferably a handsome one) and treated as the heroic work of one legendary individual. Its just not the way most people are wired. People like a clearly defined leader, whether its really important in that particular instance or not.

Lebron is by far the best player in the league and has been for some time. But hes been on two championship teams. What gives? I thought superstars win titles so why doesnt he have more? No, teams win titles, and that CREATES superstars. In many cases. If Kobe played his career on the bobcats hed have zero rings and be tracy mcgrady. Thats reality. If Jason Kidd or Ray Allen played on those Laker teams, theyd be considered what Magic and Kobe are today. Circumstances rule men, but fans dont like that narrative. They simply love stars and heroes, so in the absence of any they will create them.

Tony Parkers game is tremendously effective in the circumstances hes in but he does not just go to any team and make them an immediate contender. Only Lebron and maybe Duncan and Durant do that. There are no other "real" superstars in the game, just media-concocted ones based on the fan priorities of high volume point totals and dazzling displays of athleticism. Its not related to basketball impact.

[Dresta]

Unless this Spurs team wins the next 3 championships, I wouldn't entertain the idea that superstar led teams are dead.

In the last 34 years we have seen exactly 5 teams win championships without having what I consider to be a top 3 player in the league. The team may still be stacked like the 08 Celtics, or the back to back Pistons, but there is no top 3 player for that season on the team.

Great players almost always win championships. That's why teams tank for loaded lottery classes. They're hoping for transcendent talent. They're hoping to draft the next Magic, Duncan or Jordan. They want a guy that will stick around for the next 15 years with that franchise that players will come to play with.

2013 - Miami Heat - LeBron James
2012 - Miami Heat - LeBron James
2011 - Dallas Mavericks - Dirk Nowitzki
2010 - LA Lakers - Kobe Bryant
2009 - LA Lakers - Kobe Bryant
2008 - Boston Celtics - TEAM Ball
2007 - San Antonio Spurs - TEAM Ball
2006 - Miami Heat - Referees
2005 - San Antonio Spurs - Tim Duncan
2004 - Detroit Pistons - TEAM Ball
2003 - San Antonio Spurs - Tim Duncan
2002 - LA Lakers - Shaquille O'Neal
2001 - LA Lakers - Shaquille O'Neal
2000 - LA Lakers - Shaquilles O'Neal
1999 - San Antonio Spurs - Tim Duncan
1998 - Chicago Bulls - Michael Jordan
1997 - Chicago Bulls - Michael Jordan
1996 - Chicago Bulls - Michael Jordan
1995 - Houston Rockets - Hakeem Olajuwon
1994 - Houston Rockets - Hakeem Olajuwon
1993 - Chicago Bulls - Michael Jordan
1992 - Chicago Bulls - Michael Jordan
1991 - Chicago Bulls - Michael Jordan
1990 - Detroit Pistons - TEAM Ball
1989 - Detroit Pistons - TEAM Ball
1988 - LA Lakers - Magic Johnson
1987 - LA Lakers - Magic Johnson
1986 - Boston Celtics - Larry Bird
1985 - LA Lakers - Magic Johnson
1984 - Boston Celtics - Larry Bird
1983 - Philadelphia 76ers - Moses Malone
1982 - LA Lakers - Magic Johnson
1981 - Boston Celtics - Larry Bird
1980 - LA Lakers - Magic Johnson

All those teams played great team ball. Even Kobe's Lakers played great team ball when they were good; when Kobe played hero ball they sucked. From what i've seen of the 80s Celtics/Lakers they played great team ball too - not 'hero' ball at all.

Funnily enough, one of your best examples of 'hero' ball in Wade of 06 i see you've bitterly named 'referees' - moron.

[VengefulAngel]

Superstars win games, Teams win Championships.

[MavsSuperFan]

Not really. The Thunder would have beaten the Spurs with Ibaka.

ibaka is worth a 17 point differential?

[D-FENS]

Good list, but I'd say those Lakers, Celtics and Sixers teams played team ball. Even as dominant as Moses was, the Sixers still played team ball. Same goes for LA and Boston re: Magic and Bird.

What you and I consider TEAM ball are two different things. I consider it a team of players that has no clear individual leader. Yes, a lot of those teams played excellent team basketball with superstars on the team, but to me, you take the superstar off the team and they ain't winning shit. And as much as the 80's Celtics and Lakers were showing off deft passing and teamwork, Magic and Larry were the guys that were dictating the flow of the game and how the game was played.

[Dr.J4ever]

good defensive teams can always interrupt offensive flow. When plays break down teams need a guy that can isolate and create offense individually.

The spurs got guys that can all go to work when needed, but they are smart enough to know to use it as a last ditch effort or when an immediate opportunity arises.

I agree. I'm not saying you can't isolate your best player as part of a larger offense predicated on team ball. The "hero ball" mentality happens when there is a large disparity between superstar stats, and the role players on a particular team. Case in point: last night's Okc-Spurs. Just from memory from what Charles said,3 of OKC's starters had 5 points. They were content for Westbrook and Durant to just keep on "chucking" it.

The result: KD and Brook worn down in the clutch, and no OKC player in the end had the confidence to shoot.

[The Iron Sheik]

all teams who win championships play team ball.

just because a team has a superstar or two, doesn't mean that that team doesn't play as a unit and exclusively resorts to "hero ball". the saying should go "no team wins a title unless role players step up". guys like ray allen, derek fisher, danny green, etc. these are the guys who help put teams over the top.

[Akrazotile]

What you and I consider TEAM ball are two different things. I consider it a team of players that has no clear individual leader. Yes, a lot of those teams played excellent team basketball with superstars on the team, but to me, you take the superstar off the team and they ain't winning shit. And as much as the 80's Celtics and Lakers were showing off deft passing and teamwork, Magic and Larry were the guys that were dictating the flow of the game and how the game was played.

You could say this about guys like Fisher and Posey who played integral roles on multiple title teams.

"Superstars" outside of guys like Lebron, Shaq, MJ, Duncan etc are more replaceable than you and most people think.

Kobe? Durant? Parker? Pierce? Dirk? Wade? These are second tier guys who were elevated to first tier by being on championship-caliber teams in a given year and being the primary ball shooter on them. It was perception associated with making the finals that elevated them, not reality. You could replace them with a lot of similar guys in that role and still be likely to win.

[imdaman99]

Neither series is over. Wow, home teams won their Game 1s easily

[Dr.J4ever]

Spurs offense looking fluid, as usual. Balanced scoring all the way to a 2-0 lead?

[jcsrplumply]

Not really. The Thunder would have beaten the Spurs with Ibaka.

with Ibaka, Harden, and the refs.

[Euroleague]

good defensive teams can always interrupt offensive flow. When plays break down teams need a guy that can isolate and create offense individually.

The spurs got guys that can all go to work when needed, but they are smart enough to know to use it as a last ditch effort or when an immediate opportunity arises.

The Spurs have not played defense in years.