As much as you guys complain about the soft cap you better appreciate it.

[Kblaze8855]

If we had baseballs model?

The Lakers and Knicks could use their TV deals to fund Mike Trout style 400 million dollar deals.

Knicks make I think 35-40 million a year off MSG network which over the 20 years the Laker deal covers would be 750-800 million. The Rockets have a 900 million dollar deal.

Lakers though?

The Lakers deal is pulling in 200 million a season. Its a 4 BILLION dollar deal. Give them a baseball style cap they could throw 400 million at KD for 10 years(knowing hed likely retire after about 8) and 450 at Davis(extra years) and eat good. The TV money covers the first 200 million a season.

They could give 40 million a year to 3 players and have 80 million more before they go into normal team revenue to pay it.

Be thankful for what you have NBA fans. You think your "small" markets are ****ed. Try having no cap and competing with the Yankees and Dodgers who make 150-200 million a season off local TV.

Then we see who really knows how to build a team. You can understand why baseball had to go all Moneyball. They have to pull effective players out of the void to even think about going after the big teams. And they know(KNOW) they are just grooming them to join the big boys. What kind of idiot takes 10 years 150 million when the Dodgers can pay you 300? You cant even blame baseball players for walking.

They can be paid as much as poor teams entire payroll. The Rays are paying 38 million for their team next year....

You think the Cavs and Pelicans are ****ed? The Rays are ****ed. There is NOTHING they can do to compete yearly. They can hope to go all out one year in 10 if all the prospects and a couple vets line up and have a great year before being bought by the big teams but thats it.

[iamgine]

But it's not soft cap vs no cap. No one deny soft cap is better than no cap.

It's soft cap vs hard cap.

[Kblaze8855]

But it's not soft cap vs no cap. No one deny soft cap is better than no cap.

It's soft cap vs hard cap.

This is the lady walking around with a Virgina ham complaining they have no bread.

Yes....ive been rewatching the Sopranos. But the point is clear.

Every NBA team can compete. You lock guys up for 6-8 years.


KP is about to be the first player in history to turn down the obvious big deal to sign the qualifying offer to be a free agent next year. Everyone till now...EVERY SINGLE ONE signed back to his original team. Most sign another one after that. And all the home teams can pay more than the teams they lose their guys to.


The soft cap gives them the financial advantage. A small baseball team CANT pay what the Yankees do without the owner going into his pocket. They cant generate the revenue to get close. Teams we consider poor in the NBA still offer their stars all the money they can possibly be paid by anyone else and then some.

Its rare you lose an NBA player over the money unless you flat out dont value them that much like Harden and OKC. He told them hed stay for the same money the Rockets offered and they didnt offer it. They chose bigmen. Then the cap spiked and Harden was actually underpaid briefly.

You lose NBA players for money when you just dont care to keep them.

Its not a situation where your whole team is worth less than a big market will pay your star.

[Spurs m8]

But it's not soft cap vs no cap. No one deny soft cap is better than no cap.

It's soft cap vs hard cap.

Exactly.

Needs hard cap.

[Kblaze8855]

I dont think you all are grasping how easy it would be to build these same teams with a hard cap. Even ignoring that a hard cap would have to be set at the upper end of current spending to not instantly force the cutting of half the NBA to make 150 guys sign smaller deals in a move that would simply end the NBA because no union would accept it.....


The 2011 Heat only had the 19th highest payroll. Know what they would have had to do to be under a hard cap? Switch out Howard and Magloire for minimum salary young players while the big 3 gave up like 1.5 million each.

The Warriors with KD were only 6 million over the cap. Easily fixed.

Guys would just do what they have been doing. Give up salary to form a super team on short deals then walk when the time is right.

The NFL has a hard cap and you can still just buy up talent in the short term like the Rams did adding Suh, Talib, Peters, and paying Donald the biggest deal in history all at once to make a superbowl run. Cant maintain it but you can do whatever you want for 2-3 seasons if you go bare bones in some places.

You cant do it forever. But NBA teams dont do it forever. Teams run into the repeater luxury tax and turn back which is a system small spenders are fine with because they get the luxury tax payments in revenue sharing.

An actual hard cap would be set at I bet....120 million. The regular cap goes to 118 in 2020. Philly today has 115 million in payroll with like 15+ million in players that barely play.

You could fit whatever you want into a hard cap if players decide they want to win. The 1-2 underpaid young players make it even easier. Anthony Davis is telling a team offering 87 million more than anyone else can to eat a dick and you still think guys wouldnt find a way to play together now and get paid later?

This is a league where people most never heard of make more than HOF quarterbacks in their primes.

They arent worried about the money in the short term anymore. They have 300 million dollar shoe deals, all of them are coming off the rookie extensions that paid them 100-150 million to begin with before they even start to demand out.....and they know they can get another big contract later if they want it. They will "settle" for little money up front for winning.

The Big 3 took Jason Richardson/Carlos Boozer money to play together in Miami. They were all outside the top 20.

What did that matter?

Lebrons NBA money isnt even half of his yearly income.

They are buying rings with reduced salary and making the money up off the court with the added notoriety. Give them the hard cap as high as it would be with all the new tv/internet money the same teams would form and you would just complain that they should get a smaller cut of the revenue because its still so much money they dont feel the loss.

And you know what cutting the players cut gets you?

No NBA.

If you look at it inside the confines of the real world things that would need to happen you know the hard cap is a total non starter and wouldnt stop super teams from forming anyway. It would stop them from lasting long.

But so far none have lasted more than 3-4 years anyway assuming KD walks this season.

You might shorten the window from 4 years to 3 to get the rings in but the net result would be MORE superteams just formed for shorter time windows.

Teams can always empty the roster and sign 2-3 big stars. Always. The cap is just too high with the new money. By the next TV deal its gonna be so high guys will be able to leave money on the table and still take 35 million a piece.

The digital age has ended the hard cap as a realistic deterrent. The guys can still be paid too much to care.

[Kblaze8855]

Really...cap is going to 120 in a year.

Imagine 4 years from now.

130-135 million dollar hard cap.

Pay Giannis 38, Embiid 38, and Trae Young 32 million. Youre still 27 million under the cap. Or if its a bit lower do 35, 35, and 28.

You think NBA stars wont take 28-35 million a year to win a ring then max out later? In 6 years Giannis will be 30, Embiid 31, and Young 26. That would be after signing those deals 4 years from now and playing together for 2 seasons with player options on year 3. They might all be able to go get 220+ million elsewhere. Or more likely just one of them walks/gets traded for underpaid youth to give the remaining team some depth.

You cant stop guys willing to leave some on the table. Not when the cap is going so high leaving some on the table is still DOUBLE what max players were paid as recently as 2012. The influx of digital rights money has left the hard cap a toothless threat. Theres still too much money to hurt them by leaving some on the table.

It isnt like the NFL that has to fit 50+ guys(more with injury) into 170 million. They only need 2-3 difference makers and some cheap shooters. Plus...NFL players arent individually as famous. OBJ has the biggest shoe deal in football history at 5 million a season for 5 years.

Hardens shoe deal is 200 million. KD turned DOWN 285 million from Underarmor. Under armor gave Steph stock options. He might end up a billionaire off that deal in time. Lebrons high school shoe deal would be the 4th most guaranteed money for any NFL contract ever. Zion is gonna get a shoe deal worth more than twice any NFL contract in history before he gets drafted. Hes gonna make 150-200 million from Nike on potential alone.

NBA stars are tycoons. They arent gonna go down a loser in history over a little NBA money.

They make Adidas money. Gatorade money. Chinese money.

The NBAs 30 million will be fine for 2-3 years to get that ring out of the way. And you will absolutely be able to fit 2-3 30 million dollar guys into a team that still has enough shooters to win soon. Even with a hard cap.

[iamgine]

I'm not sure the theory that NBA players will take $30mil vs say, $50mil salary is true. Maybe for a very very limited number of stars? Usually the team they prefer would have to match or at least be close. I've really only seen KD leave a rather significant amount on the table. Or Duncan, but he was 38.

[Real Men Wear Green]

LA would have 30 rings due to the West era but the Knicks would still **** it up.

[TheCorporation]

LA would have 30 rings due to the West era but the Knicks would still **** it up.

Probably the first thing we agree with

[JohnnySic]

MLB's no-cap system is garbage. Its a moot point. NFL does it right with a hard cap (makes the Patriots' run all the more impressive, btw .)

[FKAri]

This is the lady walking around with a Virgina ham complaining they have no bread.

Yes....ive been rewatching the Sopranos. But the point is clear.

Every NBA team can compete. You lock guys up for 6-8 years.


KP is about to be the first player in history to turn down the obvious big deal to sign the qualifying offer to be a free agent next year. Everyone till now...EVERY SINGLE ONE signed back to his original team. Most sign another one after that. And all the home teams can pay more than the teams they lose their guys to.


The soft cap gives them the financial advantage. A small baseball team CANT pay what the Yankees do without the owner going into his pocket. They cant generate the revenue to get close. Teams we consider poor in the NBA still offer their stars all the money they can possibly be paid by anyone else and then some.

Its rare you lose an NBA player over the money unless you flat out dont value them that much like Harden and OKC. He told them hed stay for the same money the Rockets offered and they didnt offer it. They chose bigmen. Then the cap spiked and Harden was actually underpaid briefly.

You lose NBA players for money when you just dont care to keep them.

Its not a situation where your whole team is worth less than a big market will pay your star.

Could you or someone else explain to me or lead me to where I can find info on, how the qualifying offer works? From what I understand is that it's a player who is turning down guaranteed money from his current team in favor of what he could get offered in an open market. Is that in the ballpark? What is the incentive to take it or not take it?

[Kblaze8855]

I'm not sure the theory that NBA players will take $30mil vs say, $50mil salary is true. Maybe for a very very limited number of stars? Usually the team they prefer would have to match or at least be close. I've really only seen KD leave a rather significant amount on the table. Or Duncan, but he was 38.

Kevin Garnett has a contract grandfathered in so the post 99 CBA didnt apply to him. After his MVP season he could have signed a deal that would have made him the first 40 million a season player. He was at 28 million a year and the MVP instead of signing for a contract that would pay him 32...then 35....38....41...drops his pay to 16.

Why?

To help the team. To try to win.

A guy like that who could sign for 50 and lose or for 30 and get help wouldnt hesitate. They are already near mogul levels of wealth.

And then you factor in the off the court money? even the non household name guys get more than other athletes.

Lilliard makes more endorsement money than anyone in the NFL. Brady is close but not quite there.

Those shoe deals really tip the scales. Guys who didnt even make the all star team this year make 30-40 million after the shoe deal.

[Kblaze8855]

Could you or someone else explain to me or lead me to where I can find info on, how the qualifying offer works? From what I understand is that it's a player who is turning down guaranteed money from his current team in favor of what he could get offered in an open market. Is that in the ballpark? What is the incentive to take it or not take it?

If you take it play for one year under a small deal(like 4-5 million) and then become an unrestricted free agent.

If the team doesnt give him the qualifying offer hes a restricted FA so he can get offers from other teams but since his current team can offer the most im not sure what the point is if its all about the money. I guess in KPs case he wants to force Dallas to offer him their max after he proves hes healthy and not take a smaller deal now on spec.

Hes risking probably 100+ million hoping for a bigger deal. He knows they would offer him 100+ today but he feels he will prove worthy of more if he plays this year for 5. And being unrestricted he knows Dallas will pay out since he can walk.

[Ben Simmons 25]

This is the lady walking around with a Virgina ham complaining they have no bread.

Yes....ive been rewatching the Sopranos. But the point is clear.

Oh man that show had so many great one liners.

My dad says "whining with a pork chop in your mouth", heh.

[Charlie Sheen]

Still need a George Steinbrenner to blow the market open. His kids don't spend on the team like he did. Nobody in today's game does