Mindboggling Anti-vaxxers case

[bladefd]

Recently, there was a lot of talk of the highschool student getting vaccines for himself against his parents' wishes the moment he turned 18. Then he testified in front of Congress last week, begging Congress to do something before more kids died.

So yesterday, CDC reported another scary case from 2017 of a 6yr old boy who contracted tetanus..

[QUOTE][Health officials] reported the boy

[Kblaze8855]

We are all lucky we nearly eradicated smallpox and polio before these idiots spread. These clowns have kids getting Oregon trail diseases and risking everyone else. They really need their own schools. Sucks for the kids but you can

[Ben Simmons 25]

I believe in vaccines and am pro vaccine except in one case...


Flu shots.


****. That. Shit.


I’ve known too many people that get a flu shot that then get sick within a few days with... the flu. And definitely DO NOT TAKE NASAL FLU SPRAYS if you’re going to do it at all.

And every single time pharmacists and doctors tell me it’s just a coincidence but that’s straight bullshit... I saw it happen too many times. Even the most heavily pro flu vaccine people will tell you they’re just playing guessing games with which strain will be prevalent in any given year.

I’ve had zero flu shots since I was a child and I’ve maybe gotten the flu 2 or 3x max over the course of 25 years... knock on wood.

[bladefd]

I believe in vaccines and am pro vaccine except in one case...


Flu shots.


****. That. Shit.


I’ve known too many people that get a flu shot that then get sick within a few days with... the flu. And definitely DO NOT TAKE NASAL FLU SPRAYS if you’re going to do it at all.

And every single time pharmacists and doctors tell me it’s just a coincidence but that’s straight bullshit... I saw it happen too many times. Even the most heavily pro flu vaccine people will tell you they’re just playing guessing games with which strain will be prevalent in any given year.

I’ve had zero flu shots since I was a child and I’ve maybe gotten the flu 2 or 3x max over the course of 25 years... knock on wood.

Flu shots don't give you flu because the cells they inject is not activated. The nasal flu sprays are active though so you are right in that specific exception - avoid those nasal sprays. Only get the injection. I don't even know why those sprays exist - I'm guessing it's designed for people who have legit psychological fear of needles or have certain blood diseases where their blood cannot clot. For everyone else though, stick to injections. It's just a pinch..

Flu vaccination effectiveness varies from year to year, yes. I don't see that as a valid reason to avoid flu shots though.. They don't cost much at all (insurances pay for flu shots) and have no side-effects. Maybe minor soreness for 24-48hrs, but it's very minor inconvenience. I have been getting them each year and never gotten the flu.

[Overdrive]

[QUOTE=Ben Simmons 25]I believe in vaccines and am pro vaccine except in one case...


Flu shots.


****. That. Shit.


I

[bladefd]

You're getting a cold, not the flu because your immune system is weakend for a week by the shot. Get the shot before flu/cold season if possible.

Colds are different from flu. Both are viral afaik, but a flu shot cannot lead to a cold, if that's what you are implying. The two are very different.


Going back to bensimmons25- People feel a little soreness, body aches, minor fever in rare circumstances after getting a flu shot, and they assume they got the flu. But that's not getting the flu. It's just an immune system response getting into combat mode

[Ben Simmons 25]

No... they've literally gotten the flu. Like been out of work for over a week level flu. Not just minor symptoms.

The nasal spray contains a live flu virus... which is why if you're going to do it you should get the needle.

I directly worked with probably around 1000 people over the course of a decade... and I'm telling you... no, it wasn't everyone, of course not, but a significant portion of flu shots resulted in the flu... especially nasal sprays. Like maybe 15 or 20%, I don't know. I didn't keep a tally.

I just know I'd rather get the flu once every 5 to 8 years than give myself even a 10% chance of getting it annually as the result of a ****ing shot.

And yes the sprays are designed for people that are terrified of needles.

Since I started taking vitamin C supplements, I haven't been sick in over 2 years with even as little as a cold, so there's that.

[bladefd]

No... they've literally gotten the flu. Like been out of work for over a week level flu. Not just minor symptoms.

The nasal spray contains a live flu virus... which is why if you're going to do it you should get the needle.

I directly worked with probably around 1000 people over the course of a decade... and I'm telling you... no, it wasn't everyone, of course not, but a significant portion of flu shots resulted in the flu... especially nasal sprays. Like maybe 15 or 20%, I don't know. I didn't keep a tally.

I just know I'd rather get the flu once every 5 to 8 years than give myself even a 10% chance of getting it annually as the result of a ****ing shot.

And yes the sprays are designed for people that are terrified of needles.

Since I started taking vitamin C supplements, I haven't been sick in over 2 years with even as little as a cold, so there's that.

You have your information wrong then. Regular needle-based flu vacines cannot under any circumstances cause the flu.

So let me explain how viruses work.

In order for you to get flu from a flu shot, the virus cells have to be able to replicate. Viruses don't replicate through mitosis like bacteria, but they essentially infect and hijack other cells. These hijacked cells burst, releasing more viruses to infect other cells, spreading through the body.

In order for the virus to infect the original cell, the virus has to be alive. Needle-based flu vaccines don't have living viruses. It is scientifically impossible to get flu from needle-based flu shots.

One possible reason is perhaps the person already had living flu cells in body around the same time as getting the flu vaccine (bit like autistic kids being diagnosed the same time as getting the vaccines so parents assume it must have been the vaccines rather than that they already had it). Or they think they have the flu when it could be any number of things, including the common cold - this is sometimes the problem with individuals self-diagnosing at times and assuming things.

Now the sprays can because they use both live and dead virus cells. Do not get those. The way they are created is very different from injection based flu shots.

As for getting a flu shot every 5-6 years.. It is not even worth it to wait that long between flu shots because all of these viruses are constantly evolving from year to year. Hell, there have been cases of it evolving within a single season, but usually annually from season to season. To wait 5-6 years, it is pretty much pointless to even bother getting one.

I used to think the same way about vitamin c, so I did some research to see what science studies have shown. Studies have been inconclusive. Some studies say it might lessen symptoms by a very slim margin of 5-10%, while others show it is not any more effective than placebo. So it's not enough to actually make a significant difference, if there is any difference at all.

[Overdrive]

Colds are different from flu. Both are viral afaik, but a flu shot cannot lead to a cold, if that's what you are implying. The two are very different.

No that's not what I'm implying. A flu shot occupies your immune system. So it has a harder time getting rid of a cold.

A heavy cold can take up to two weeks and lead to flu like symptoms just like a real influenza, in my language it's called flulike infection. Without testing even a doctor can't tell.

You can't get certain influenza from a influenza shot. Their problem is that they don't have any strain at hand.

[bladefd]

No that's not what I'm implying. A flu shot occupies your immune system. So it has a harder time getting rid of a cold.

A heavy cold can take up to two weeks and lead to flu like symptoms just like a real influenza, in my language it's cold flulike infection. Without testing even a doctor can't tell.

You can't get certain influenza from a influenza shot. Their problem is that they don't have any strain at hand.

Perhaps that is why most doctors recommend getting the flu shot in October before cold season goes into effect. People often confuse cold symptoms with the flu because the two often do have same or similar symptoms. Ultimately, you still can't get flu from injected flu vaccine because they don't contain any living strain like you said. It only contains dead viral cells unless if you get the nasal flu spray.

[Overdrive]

Perhaps that is why most doctors recommend getting the flu shot in October before cold season goes into effect. People often confuse cold symptoms with the flu because the two often do have same or similar symptoms. Ultimately, you still can't get flu from injected flu vaccine because they don't contain any living strain like you said. It only contains dead viral cells unless if you get the nasal flu spray.

We don't even have those sprays over here. But it can happen that you get a shot against 5 strains and acquire the the 6th and get the real flu. I personally don't get the shots, because it doesn't really matter. If you don't have a strong immune system you get sick in the winter.

[RoseCity07]

These people should go live in the mountains and stay away from civilization if they believe their stupid bullshit.

[Stephonit]

All medicines have the potential to be harmful. It's always a risk-reward proposition. For the most common vaccines it's usually worth it but I have to agree with the negative opinion on flu vaccines. Medical practitioners understate the potential negative side effects and its practical usefulness is debatable.

[Nanners]

Me and my family are basically fully vaccinated (aside from non essential stuff like HPV and flu shots), but I am vehemently opposed to any suggestion of "forced" vaccinations

Any kind of mandatory medical treatment violates "informed consent" (a concept which is kind of like medical version of free speech). The basic idea is that no medical treatment should ever be performed without the patient understanding and consenting to the treatment. The main reason you have to sign a million different forms in order to get any kind of major medical treatment in the US is because of this concept of informed consent.

[Overdrive]

Me and my family are basically fully vaccinated (aside from non essential stuff like HPV and flu shots), but I am vehemently opposed to any suggestion of "forced" vaccinations

Any kind of mandatory medical treatment violates "informed consent" (a concept which is kind of like medical version of free speech). The basic idea is that no medical treatment should ever be performed without the patient understanding and consenting to the treatment. The main reason you have to sign a million different forms in order to get any kind of major medical treatment in the US is because of this concept of informed consent.

Problem with measels is that it's harmful to society. Even if you seperate those unvaccinated people there's a chance the measels evolve and a resistent strain is created

I don't care for tetanus or stuff like that, but measels should be mandatory.