Kevin Johnson video and some other things....

[L.Kizzle]

34/11? Thats great, but he didn't even make playoffs.

Actually, he only made the playoffs once in his prime. 1 playoff app. in his prime

Honestly, I don't know how someone can rank a player who has been to the playoffs once in his prime, over a player who has been to the playoffs every year besides his rookie year where he only played 28 games for his team because of a trade.

Sure he had a bad starcast around him but,

1. He dominated the ball too much for them to even get involve or improve


Gary Payton in 2000, he had a bad starcast, worse than some of Archibald's, yet he was able to take his team to the playoffs.



The difference also between both of them is KJ makes his teammates better. Where Archibald doesn't, and that also explains his lack of good starcasts around him. Eddie Johnson and Tom Chambers both had their best years in Phoenix. And Chambers even sadi "KJ made me the player I am today" at his peak.


1 playoff appearance in his prime, no matter how bad your starcast is, thats just unacceptable. He was also traded to 3 DIFFERENT teams in his prime, yet still 1 playoff app in his prime.



As for Tiny's numbers. The main reason he put up such high numbers was because he controlled the ball all the time. His didn't think too highly of his teammates, and always had the ball, bringing up his overall numbers.

Seriously, whats the point of all the great numbers if your team isn't winning? 34/11, thats great, but you don't even make it to the playoffs.

Its not that hard to put up good numbers, when you dominate the ball, and actually lessen your chances of winning, while putting up good numbers.





There more advantages for KJ, but I think you get the point.

But when he did get players around him, he still put numbers (though not as great), made All-NBA and All-Star teams, won All-Star MVP and helped Boston to a title.

[GMATCallahan]

I think Terry Porter got in that season.

Actually, Porter made the All-Star team in 1991, as one of five points guards on the Western Conference's roster. The others were K.J. and Magic (who started), plus Stockton and Tim Hardaway. Here are highlights from that game, with a bizarre ending involving K.J.:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pl8Nnsz9bKY

And here's the box score (K.J. recorded a game-high 7 assists, 3 of which you can see in that video):

http://webuns.chez-alice.fr/all_star_game/1991.htm

In 1989, the West featured one point guard in Stockton (after Magic withdrew due to injury) and four centers. Olajuwon was a superstar and the retiring Abdul-Jabbar was the sentimental choice, but even Mark Eaton and Kevin Duckworth somehow received the nod over K.J. Eaton was a great defender and Duckworth was a talented offensive center, but neither was a complete player and one would have thought that K.J. would have at least been Magic's replacement. He was indeed perennially underrated.

Ironically, the 6'1" K.J. dunked on both Eaton and Duckworth that season. Here was his climb-and-slide-down-the-mountain-man-ladder dunk on the 7'4" Eaton:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NAEoMsHHfa4

Here's the box score for the 1989 All-Star Game:

http://webuns.chez-alice.fr/all_star_game/1989.htm

[GMATCallahan]

http://www.sendspace.com/file/i0ttke

http://youtube.com/watch?v=zqfRC9GEyYE

Not the highest quality at all points(and youtube doesnt help) but lets see you get 3 minutes of prime mostly pre Barkley Kevin Johnson footage. Its mostly from old NBA action tapes, a few home videos, and other sources. Left out the Bulls 93 title video footage. Wanted more of his pre injury days.

Now....

Hes one of the few to lead a team past a Magic Johnson led team when Magic was actually playing. Moses Malone, Bird, Jordan, Hakeem, and Kevin Johnson. Magic was hurt when they played the Pistons and got swept. Hamstring issue. Him and Magic are the only 20+ point 10+ assists 50% shooting players ever and both of them did it twice. Some choose to consider Tom Chambers the leader of those suns but its no different than Nash and Amare. Anyone giving Nash credit for the Suns should probably give KJ credit for his. Both had crazy talent to do what they did but not all talented teams come together so well..

Think these suns are great scorers? KJ was leading some of the best offensive teams anyone could hope to see. Hed led a 119ppg team one season. The brief "This day in history" clip in the video is from a game the Suns scored 173 points in regulation. One season they had 130 in 3 of the first 4 games of the season. Later that year they had 3 130+ point games in a 3 week stretch and dropped 138 points 3 days after the last of those. They topped 120 in 3 of the last 4 games of that season with a game of 141. They only went under 100 points in 3 games one season. Gave the warriors 154. They had 3 straight playoff games with over 130 points. KJ probably led the greatest offense of the last quarter century outside the early 80s Nuggets and Showtime(who never actually scored 119 a game as the Suns did).

When Nash went off in the 05 playoffs he had people saying it proved he was MVP. He put up 24 and 11 that playoff run. Kevin Johnson had long playoff runs(10 games or more 3 of them to the WCF) getting:

24/12
24/12(not a mistake he did it in 2 seasons)
27 and 10
25/9(shot 57% that run too)

And really he could have put up more assists but the Suns had an oldschool style of fastbreak. They didnt just run with the ball they broke out like wide recievers and had guys throwing full court outlet passes. In the video I showed clips from a Suns/heat game where Kevin did a lot of what im talking about. Get the rebound and toss it 80 feet for the layup or to a teammate who then gets the assist by hitting the open man. He might have averaged more assists if he kept the ball himself more on the break.

In the halfcourt he had a good bit of scoring responsibility. He didnt lead them in ppg but id say he was their best one on one scorer. Bit of a TJ ford and Wade hybrid. Always willing to pass but he could get to the basket at will.

And his defense. He wasnt an elite defender but he was great on the ball when he had to be. Even guarded Michael Jordan pretty well at times even though the bigger(and all D team level defender) Majerle was on the team. List of current points you could throw on Jordan is not long.

Im not saying hes top 30-50 all time as a few do but he sure as hell wasnt worse than Steve Nash.



Praise KJ.

Great video, thanks a lot for posting it. I'd been waiting for someone to compile an extensive K.J. montage.

[AppleNader]

GMAT, do you have any photos of KJ on Dream Team II? I can't find any on google

[GMATCallahan]

One advantage that K.J. would hold over Archibald is that he was a better shooter and he shot superior field goal percentages. Archibald's were pretty effective (career .467), but K.J. was extremely efficient for a point guard who also happened to be a dominant scorer (career .493, with three full seasons above .500, two others at .499, and another at .496). K.J. was also the more prolific playmaker (career 9.1 assists to Archibald's 7.4), the more productive rebounder (career 3.4 rebounds to Archibald's 2.3), and the somewhat better free throw shooter (career .841 to Archibald's .810).

Here's a February 1991 article from the New York Times that quotes Archibald on K.J. and also compares the two rather extensively. I'll copy it for your reading pleasure.

PRO BASKETBALL; Speedy Johnson Races to the Top
GOLDAPER, SAM. New York Times. (Late Edition (East Coast)). New York, N.Y.: Feb 10, 1991. pg. A.6

He is nearly 25 years old, looks younger and has an altar boy demeanor. He is earning $1,750,000 this season and will reach $2,750,000 in 1995 as part of his seven-year, $15 million contract. Not bad for someone who grew up in the poor section of Sacramento, Calif., thinking baseball rather than basketball.

He is Kevin Johnson, K. J to some, the point guard of blinding speed, quickness, athleticism, passing ability and penetration for the Phoenix Suns. He is also the starting point guard for the Western Conference in today's National Basketball Association All-Star Game in Charlotte, N.C.

While Johnson has gained increasing individual recognition, he has been even more impressive as a part of the team resurgence of the Suns, who have risen from 28 victories in 1987-88 to become a title contender in the last three seasons.

"He has meant everything to this team," said Cotton Fitzsimmons, who took over as the Suns' coach for the 1988-89 season.

That was the season Johnson gained membership in the exclusive 20-10 club by averaging 20.4 points and 12.2 assists a game. He was in lofty company: Oscar Robertson, Isiah Thomas, Magic Johnson and Nate Archibald are the only other players to have accomplished the feat in the history of the N.B.A. He did it again last year and is well on his way to a reprise again this season, averaging 22.2 points (14th in the league), 10.1 assists (4th) and 2.5 steals (5th) after 46 games.

Johnson, who prefers using "we," instead of "I," would rather not discuss being a member of that illustrious club.

But when pressed, he did.

"It wasn't my goal; it's just something that occurred," Johnson said. "My goal is always for the team to have a successful season. Magic and Isiah are my contemporaries and they have championship rings. So does Robertson and Archibald. If I want to be considered in their category, I've got to get a ring. That's how I look at it."

Johnson is often compared with outstanding players past and present, and the same names keep coming up. An informal survey of several players, coaches and general managers produced opinions that the right-handed Sun guard can penetrate like Magic Johnson, is as quick with the ball as John Stockton, and is as good with his left hand as Larry Bird.

But the name that surfaced most often in the comparisons was that of Nate (Tiny) Archibald, the only player ever to have led the N.B.A. in both scoring (34.0) and assists (11.4). He did it playing for the Kansas City-Omaha Kings in the 1972-73 season.

"He's quicker than I was and is a better shooter," Archibald said last week at the Legends Game at Madison Square Garden. "He has great determination. He'll do anything it takes to win."

Tom Chambers, Johnson's high-scoring teammate, said, "K. J. has the quickest first step I've ever seen."

Rory Sparrow, the Sacramento Kings' playmaker, said: "He has unbelievable quickness and is a great jumper. He's very tough to guard. The best way to do it is to back off on him and make him prove he can consistently hit the outside jumper."

"K. J. is a rocket," said Maurice Cheeks, the Knicks' point guard. "He's so explosive that he almost invites you to double-team him so he can get by you."

"Tiny was slicker," said Fitzsimmons, who has coached many other outstanding point guards, Archibald and Phil Ford among them, in his 18 years as an N.B.A. coach. "He really knew how to maneuver. Kevin has a great step to basket and is a more physical player. I take him for granted; he's the best I've ever coached. The only way to stop Kevin is to hold him. If the officials don't curtail it, he's unstoppable."

Paul Westphal and Lionel Hollins, both former All-Star guards, now assistant coaches with the Suns, have helped Johnson expand his natural repertory. Naturally ambidextrous, Westphal, who is scheduled to be the Suns' coach when Fitzsimmons retires, has taught Johnson to use the left-hand drive. Hollins has shown him how to use his body and the rim to frustrate shot blockers and how to better find the open man when he is double-teamed.

The 6-foot-1-inch Johnson has become one of the league's most productive point guards in just four pro seasons after a rocky start.

In 1987, his selection as the seventh player in the draft by the Cleveland Cavaliers was met with boos and groans of disappointment by fans. Few had heard of Johnson and some skeptics even questioned the sanity of Wayne Embry, the general manager, who drafted him.

Embry was sure he had made the correct choice.

The Cavs had done their homework well. Johnson, who attended the University of California, was the Golden Bears' career leader in scoring (1,665 points), assists (521) and steals (155).

"We watched films and liked what we saw," Embry said. "We got good reports on him from everywhere but it was his play at the Aloha Classic in Hawaii that moved him up as a lottery pick in most everyone's estimation."

Johnson, describing his trip to Hawaii as "one for business," said he went there to show everyone that "I was a true point guard."

"I had to beat the rap of being a shooting guard in a point guard's body," he said.

Embry was more certain he had made the right choice when he and Gary Fitzsimmons, the Cavaliers' player-personnel director, went to the airport to pick up Johnson for his first news conference. Gary Fitzsimmons is Cotton's son.

"The kid had great personality," Embry said. "As he got off the plane, it was like President Reagan had arrived. He was smiling, joking around and shaking every hand in sight."

But the Cavaliers already had a point guard, a good one at that, in Mark Price. Rather than let one of them languish on the bench, four months into Johnson's rookie season, Johnson was the central figure in a five-player trade that brought Larry Nance to Cleveland.

"We didn't think they could survive together," said Embry, who said he remained a fan of Johnson. "Mark needed the playing time and so did Kevin."

Johnson looks back at his rookie season with Cleveland, when he averaged 20 minutes in 52 games, as a learning experience. "There was a night and day difference between Price and myself," he said. "He taught me so much in a short period of time. I told myself that when I came back for my second season, I would implement all the things he taught me. Whether it was practice or a game, he did everything with the same consistency. He took 500 shots in practice every day, maybe more. If he would have given me one inch, I thought I would have been able to challenge him for the job. He never gave me that inch."

Johnson likes playing in the Pacific Division, and with the Suns in particular, where the offense is more suited to his game.

"Cleveland was a half-court team," he said, "geared to go inside and slow it up. Here, we run and push the ball up the court and, play tough defense. Our objective is to run and outhustle the opposition at both ends of the court."

Johnson believes that "it was one of the greatest trades of all time."

"It was meant to benefit both teams and it has," he said.

A lot of good things have happened to Johnson in Phoenix, the latest of which has been his elevation to starter in the All-Star Game.

What a difference a year makes. The Western Conference coaches voted him on to last year's team as a reserve. But he was in awe of being in the company of Magic Johnson, Michael Jordan, Larry Bird and Akeem Olajuwon and felt more like a spectator than a participant.

"I was so excited I didn't even care if I played," he said. "It was just a dream come true to have my name announced during the introductions and to sit on the bench and be able to listen to Pat Riley in the huddle asking Magic who he wanted to guard on defense, Larry Bird or Michael Jordan."

Today, he will be playing alongside Magic in an all-Johnson starting backcourt.

[Photograph]
Kevin Johnson driving around John Stockton of the Jazz. (Reuters)

[Illustration]
"Watching a Sun Rise," showing Kevin Johnson's year-by-year statistics.

[GMATCallahan]

GMAT, do you have any photos of KJ on Dream Team II? I can't find any on google

Here's one of K.J. and Team USA/Phoenix Suns teammate Dan Majerle with their gold medals:

http://www.nba.com/suns/news/00382493.html

If I run into any action photos, I'll let you know.

[GMATCallahan]

What's curious is the differing philosohpies that defenders held when it came to guarding K.J. In the article that I posted above, Rory Sparrow talked about playing off K.J. and letting him shoot the jumper. However, in the following Los Angeles Times article on the eve of the 1989 Western Conference Finals between the Lakers and Suns, L.A.'s Byron Scott stated that the best way to play K.J. was hard-and-tight rather than giving him room for his jumper. Naturally, K.J. could beat a defender both ways and force him into a tough choice.

Again, I'll copy the article for your reading pleasure.

NBA PLAYOFFS A WEAKNESS? If Lakers Have One, It May Be Playing One-on-One Defense; [Home Edition]
SAM McMANIS. Los Angeles Times (pre-1997 Fulltext). Los Angeles, Calif.: May 19, 1989. pg. 1

Spontaneity seemingly has no place in Pat Riley's regimented practices, where every action must have a purpose.

So, when Riley interrupted a half-court drill during the Lakers' first pre-playoff practice late last month, it was understood that he had something significant to say to his players. Riley spoke passionately and convincingly to his players about their perceived defensive weakness. He cited scouting reports obtained from obliging opponents, plus another report elicited from an independent scout, all noting that the way to beat the Lakers is to exploit their defensive matchups.

Assured that the point had been made, Riley folded his practice notes into thirds, tucked them into the back pocket of his khakis and went back to silent observation.

"That was a motivational tool," said Riley, when reminded of his short speech. "A lot of that was for attitude. We were building a challenge in them, like, `If that's what they think about us, then . . . ' I mean, I wanted them to know that other people don't think they can guard them."

That evaluation, however, cannot be totally dismissed. There is some truth, it seems, in the assessment that one of the Lakers' few problem areas is individual defense-as opposed to team defense, such as their effective half-court trap.

"It has to be a little realistic, because that's what other teams are saying," said Michael Cooper, the Lakers' defensive specialist. "We had lapses, sure. But it was a different intensity in the regular season."

So far in the playoffs, however, the Lakers have proved those appraisals either inaccurate or obsolete. In sweeping the first two rounds, against Portland and Seattle, the Lakers have given up nearly six fewer points a game than during the regular season.

But the Lakers, who credit their defensive resurgence to greater intensity and concerted effort, will face their biggest challenge yet starting Saturday, when they play the Phoenix Suns in Game 1 of the Western Conference finals.

The Suns, led by quick point guard Kevin Johnson and high-scoring forward Tom Chambers, averaged 116.8 points against the Lakers during the regular season, when the teams split six games. And, so far in the playoffs, the Suns are averaging 122.8 points a game, more than any other playoff team.

Though respectful of Phoenix's offensive capabilities, the Lakers say they are confident they can harness the Suns' powerful running game. If so, the Lakers will have to once again prove wrong the scouts who said they have trouble stopping open-court and isolation moves the Suns often use.

"Those other teams that sent us reports, they always said the same thing," Riley said. "It was, `Take it at them, beat them off the dribble. There's an opinion around that we don't have good individual defenders.

"But, in this league, against the many offensive talents, there aren't many good individual (defensive) players. Everybody gets beat off the dribble sometimes. But you got to keep that to a minimum.

"(The scouts) got to look at something and ask, `What can we attack?' Look at our starting lineup. Magic (Johnson) is a 6-9 guard and even though he is an excellent team defender-probably the best team defender in the NBA-he cannot really contain point guards. There's a physiological difference.

"Byron (Scott) can guard and can contain point guards. James (Worthy) and A. C. (Green) are thought of as guys that aren't good defending out on the floor (away from the basket). And, then, Kareem (Abdul-Jabbar) . . .

"Teams think they can break us down. So, we see a lot of isolation and putting the ball on the floor."

The Lakers already have faced such tactics against the Trail Blazers and the SuperSonics in their first two series and were hardly threatened. Through seven playoff games, opponents have made only 44% of their shots against the Lakers.

The combination of tough individual and team defense, in the form of switches and traps, enabled the Lakers to hold Dale Ellis and Xavier McDaniel, Seattle's scoring threats, to 42% and 43% shooting, respectively. And, in the first round, Portland's Clyde Drexler made 49% of his shots.

"I'm pleased," Riley said. "We're doing a better job individually, cutting the (uncontested drives to the basket) down to a minimum. Once they apply themselves, our guys are capable of guarding people."

The Suns, however, present matchup problems because they often play without a center. They also favor a fast-break offense-"You can't really call it a passing game," Riley said-and spread the court for Kevin Johnson in half-court situations.

Johnson is the Western Conference's version of Detroit's Isiah Thomas, but he may even be quicker and more of a scoring threat. In six games against the Lakers this season, he averaged 22.5 points and 16 assists.

Probably drawing the assignment against Johnson will be Scott, with considerable relief by Cooper. Both talked as if it would be their toughest assignment in the playoffs, even if they end up playing Thomas and the Pistons again in the finals.

"The fact that he can shoot and drive presents a problem," Scott said. "You can't play him just one way. You can't say, `I'll play him back and make him shoot the jumper,' because that's what he likes to do. You've got to get up on him and play him as tough as possible."

And risk having Johnson simply drive around him for a layup or easy assist.

"You can't be scared of his quickness, because he might beat you anyway," Scott added. "Myself and Coop are more aware now what he likes to do and what he does best. We can't relax at all when we're on him. When you relax or straighten up, just for a second, he's gone."

Even stopping Johnson, were that possible, would not ensure stopping the Suns. Chambers averaged 20.5 points against the Lakers and the Suns' other Johnson, sixth-man Eddie, averaged 22.4.

"We've got to stop two of their three threats," Cooper said. "That's the same line of attack (the Lakers used) against Seattle, where we had to stop two of the three-McDaniel, Ellis or (Derrick) McKey-in order to win.

"There's no way we can beat these guys with two of them getting 30 and holding one down, and then having guys like (Dan) Majerle and (Tyron) Corbin come in and hurt us."

If the Lakers manage to contain Johnson and the rest of the Suns, and advance to the championship series for the third straight season, maybe those scouting reports will have to be amended.

Not that Laker players believed them much anyway.

"They were just looking at us in the regular season," Scott said of the scouts. "That's not the same. We've shown already that we're playing different. Everybody here plays stronger and more intense in the playoffs. But you'd have to say, definitely, this will be our toughest (defensive) test."

Cooper said he has heard the criticism of the Laker defense before. "People have always said that about this club, that we're weak," he said. "Yet, we somehow always manage to pull it off. I don't think there's a weak link on any individual on this club. It's just a matter of asserting ourselves."

Riley said that he, too, believes in the Lakers' defensive capabilities, that he just felt compelled to make his players aware of what others are saying.

"I wanted (the scouts) to be very critical, as well as telling us our good parts," Riley said. "There are a number of parts of our game that can be looked at critically."

No doubt, Laker players will eventually hear about them.

Laker Notes

Guard Byron Scott aggravated his bruised right wrist Thursday in practice while trying to dunk over teammate Orlando Woolridge. Scott had the wrist taped by trainer Gary Vitti and continued practicing. . . . For the first time in eight seasons, Laker guard Michael Cooper was not voted onto either the all-defensive first or second team by NBA coaches. However, Laker power forward A.C. Green made the second team.

Said Cooper: "There were a lot of good defensive players this year. It just gives me more incentive to play hard the rest of this season and next year. I've built a reputation on (defense). Not making it this year isn't going to make me or break me. But I've marked my consistency by it."

[Illustration]
PHOTO: Phoenix point guard Kevin Johnson, dribbling past Chicago's John Paxson during a regular-season game (left), figures to give the Lakers problems matching up defensively during the Western Conference finals. Johnson, who averaged 22.5 points and 16 assists in six games against the Lakers this season, is sometimes compared to Detroit's Isiah Thomas.; PHOTO: (Orange County Edition) Byron Scott of the Lakers attempts to cut off SuperSonic guard Nate McMillan. The Lakers will likely find their one-to-one defense challenged in the conference finals against Phoenix. / Associated Press; PHOTO: Byron Scott (above) will probably draw the assignment of guarding Johnson and will get relief help from Michael Cooper (below).

[GMATCallahan]

Indeed, a New York Times article from right about the same time notes that K.J. had become "an excellent outside shooter."

Cool Presence in Phoenix
CLIFTON BROWN, Special to The New York Times. New York Times. (Late Edition (East Coast)). New York, N.Y.: May 26, 1989. pg. A.26

Most athletes have a ritual they use to relax before games. Some listen to music. Others meditate.

Kevin Johnson reads the Bible. Perhaps that is fitting, because Johnson's emergence at point guard this season has been a godsend for the Phoenix Suns.

''It's kind of scary that Kevin is so good already,'' said Eddie Johnson, the Suns forward. ''I mean, he's only 23 years old, so he should get better. With his ability, the only way he won't get better is if he lets all the attention he's getting go to his head. But with him, that won't happen. He's too levelheaded. He's definitely the driving force behind this team.''

It will take all of Johnson's resolve, plus his teammates', to beat the Los Angeles Lakers in the Western Conference championship. Los Angeles leads the four-of-seven-game series, 2-0, as the teams prepare for the third game Friday night in Phoenix.

Johnson is averaging 24.5 points and 14 assists per game so far in the series, yet he is still unhappy with his play. He scored just 2 points in the second half Tuesday night as the Lakers overcame an 8-point deficit to win, 101-95.

To have a realistic chance of winning this series, the Suns think they must win at home on Friday and Sunday. The Lakers are unbeaten (10-0) during the playoffs, but Phoenix won all three home games against the Lakers this season. One of those streaks will end on Friday. Johnson hopes the Lakers' streak ends.

On-the-Job Maturity

''We've grown up a lot the last two games,'' Johnson said. ''The Lakers' experience has been the main reason they've won the first two games. You can just feel their confidence on the court. The playoffs are a way of life for them, and we're still trying to figure out how to approach the games. By the second half on Tuesday, I was mentally drained. I wanted to come out aggressive, but I was too keyed up. Then late in the game, I had nothing left.

''But at home, we're more confident. It's really important that I get my teammates involved early: make good passes, penetrate, anything I can to control the game and my team's destiny. We've had a great year, but we're not satisfied. We think we can still win this series.''

Considering what Johnson has accomplished this season, he has reason to be confident. He became only the fifth player in National Basketball Association history to average more than 20 points and 10 assists in the same season. Oscar Robertson, Nate Archibald, Magic Johnson and Isiah Thomas are the others.

Many players and coaches believe Kevin Johnson is the quickest player in the league, especially off the dribble. His uncanny ability to penetrate puts constant pressure on opposing defenses, and Johnson has also become an excellent outside shooter. When asked how Johnson could be contained, Cotton Fitzsimmons, the Suns' coach, smiled and said: ''There are only a few ways to contain Kevin. You can double-team him. You can foul him. You can hurt him. Or you can put a saddle on him. Other than that, you can't stop him.''

Quickness Is His Defense

Michael Cooper, the Lakers' defensive specialist, who has alternated with Byron Scott trying to check Johnson, said: ''No one in the league right now is quicker than Kevin. Some guys who aren't playing anymore have been as quick. But no one is quicker right now.

''With Kevin, the one thing we've tried to do is bump him, play him physically. He's only 6-foot-2, and when he goes into the lane, he's going to get knocked around. But he's so quick, he's going to hurt you, sooner or later. You just hope he doesn't hurt you enough to beat you.''

When Johnson was acquired from Cleveland in a trade midway through the 1987-88 season, he was the catalyst that rejuvenated the faltering Suns franchise. After a fine collegiate career at California, Johnson was Cleveland's first-round draft pick in 1987. But Johnson spent the first half of his rookie season backing up Mark Price, Cleveland's All-Star point guard.

Needing more frontcourt help, the Cavaliers sent Johnson, Mark West, Tyrone Corbin and two draft picks to Phoenix in February of last year for Larry Nance, Mike Sanders and a draft choice.

From the moment Johnson arrived in Phoenix, Fitzsimmons, who was then director of player personnel, made him the starting point guard and gave him the freedom to run the Suns' uptempo offense. Fitzsimmons has never regretted the decision. After winning 28 games last season, Phoenix won 55 games this season, the third-biggest one-year improvement in league history. Johnson was named the league's most improved player earlier this week, and Fitzsimmons was named coach of the year. Heat Shifted to Cleveland

''I probably had more confidence in Kevin when he came here than Kevin did,'' said Fitzsimmons, who took over as coach this season. ''The fans condemned the trade. The people wanted me out of town on the next train, but they wanted me under the train, not on it.

''It's funny how things work out. Now Wayne Embry, Cleveland's general manager, is taking a lot of heat in Cleveland because Kevin's playing so well. But people forget that when the Cavaliers drafted Kevin, noboby in Cleveland wanted him.

''Obviously they knew Kevin could play. But Mark Price developed better than they expected, and Price plays the halfcourt style that Cleveland plays better than Kevin does. I talked to Wayne Embry just this morning about the trade. Personally, I've never seen a trade work out better for both teams than that one.''

Not only has Johnson excelled on the court, he has also quickly become a favorite in the Phoenix community. He buys 10 tickets for each home game and distributes them to different people. He is a devout Christian who prefers spending his free evenings quietly at home.

Such a surprise was Johnson this season, he wasn't even listed on the All-Star ballot. But you can bet that won't happen again. And the Suns figure the best from Johnson is yet to come.

''I believe I'm going to be talking about Kevin Johnson for a long time,'' Fitzsimmons said. ''And personally, I couldn't be happier.'' The 20-10 Club The five players who have averaged as many as 20 points and 10 assists in a single season. Oscar Robertson Cincinnati Royals

[Table]
Season
Scoring
Assists


1961-62
30.8
11.4


1963-64
31.4
11.0


1964-65
30.4
11.5


1965-66
31.3
11.1


1966-67
30.5
10.7





Nate Archibald


Kansas City Kings


1972-73
34.0
11.4





Isiah Thomas


Detroit Pistons


1983-84
21.3
11.1


1984-85
21.2
13.9


1985-86
20.9
10.8


1986-87
20.6
10.0





Magic Johnson


Los Angeles Lakers


1986-87
23.9
12.2


1988-89
22.5
12.8





Kevin Johnson


Phoenix Suns


1988-89
20.4
12.2

[GMATCallahan]

As for where K.J. would rank all-time, that's really a subjective question, but certainly a case can be made for the 21-40 range. Consider some of the elite circles that K.J. travels in when it comes to statistical performance.

*Kevin Johnson is one of the seven players in NBA history to have averaged at least 20.0 points and 10.0 assists in the same season (along with Oscar Robertson, Tiny Archibald, Isiah Thomas, Magic Johnson, Michael Adams, and Tim Hardaway).

*Kevin Johnson is one of the four players in NBA history to have averaged at least 20.0 points and 10.0 assists in three different seasons (along with Oscar Robertson, Isiah Thomas, and Magic Johnson).

*Kevin Johnson is one of the three players in NBA history to have averaged at least 20.0 points and 10.0 assists in three consecutive seasons (along with Oscar Robertson and Isiah Thomas).

*Kevin Johnson is one of the five players in NBA history to have averaged at least 12.0 assists in a season (along with Kevin Porter, Isiah Thomas, Magic Johnson, and John Stockton).

*Kevin Johnson is one of the six players in NBA history to have averaged at least 11.0 assists in two different seasons (along with Oscar Robertson, Isiah Thomas, Magic Johnson, John Stockton, and Steve Nash).

*Kevin Johnson is one of the five players in NBA history to have averaged at least 10.0 assists in four different seasons (along with Oscar Robertson, Isiah Thomas, Magic Johnson, and John Stockton).

*Kevin Johnson is one of the six players in NBA history to have averaged at least 18.0 points and 11.0 assists in a season (along with Oscar Robertson, Tiny Archibald, Isiah Thomas, Magic Johnson, and Steve Nash).

*Kevin Johnson is one of the four players in NBA history to have averaged at least 18.0 points and 11.0 assists in two different seasons (along with Oscar Robertson, Isiah Thomas, and Magic Johnson).

*Kevin Johnson is one of the four players in NBA history to recorded at least 30 points and 12 assists in three consecutive games (along with Oscar Robertson, Tiny Archibald, and Dwyane Wade).

http://www.basketball-reference.com/...O19890224.html

http://www.basketball-reference.com/...L19890226.html

http://www.basketball-reference.com/...R19890228.html

*Kevin Johnson is one of the five players in NBA history to have recorded at least 25 assists in a single game (along with Scott Skiles, John Stockton, Nate McMillan, and Jason Kidd).

http://www.basketballreference.com/t...9940406&tm=PHO

*Kevin Johnson is one of the four players in NBA history to have averaged at least 15.0 points, 10.0 assists, and a .500 field goal percentage in the same season (along with Magic Johnson, John Stockton, and Steve Nash).

*Kevin Johnson is one of the three players in NBA history to have averaged at least 18.0 points, 11.0 assists, and a .500 field goal percentage in the same season (along with Magic Johnson and Steve Nash).

*Kevin Johnson is one of the two players in NBA history to have averaged at least 20.0 points, 10.0 assists, and a .500 field goal percentage in the same season (along with Magic Johnson).

*Kevin Johnson is the only player in NBA history to have averaged at least 20.0 points, 10.0 assists, a .500 field goal percentage, and 2.0 steals in the same season.


Then consider that in 1998, the Sporting News named K.J., along with Isiah Thomas, as its All-Playoffs Second Team guards for the decade of the 1990s (behind Michael Jordan and Clyde Drexler on the First Team). K.J. set new NBA records for minutes played in an NBA Finals game (62, in Game Three of the 1993 NBA Finals) and consecutive made free throws in a playoff game (21, in Game Seven of the 1995 Western Conference Semifinals, since tied by Paul Pierce in Game One of the 2003 Eastern Conference First Round). In three career Game Sevens, K.J. averaged 31.0 points, 10.0 assists, and a .933 free throw percentage. In short, he was a big-game player in addition to all of his elite statistical accomplishments (in six career winner-take-all playoff games, K.J. averaged 27.2 points and 9.3 assists).

To quote Pat Riley after Game Five of the 1990 Western Conference Semifinals, in which K.J. had scored 37 points (14-23 FG, 9-10 FT) and delivered 8 assists to lead Phoenix's elimination of L.A., "Kevin Johnson is a unique player." In sending the 63-win Lakers to their earliest playoff exit since 1981, K.J. had averaged 29.7 points and 11.3 assists in the last three games of the series, including 33.5 points and 12.0 assists in the last two. In fourteen games against the eventual champion Houston Rockets in the 1994 and 1995 playoffs, K.J. averaged 27.2 points and 9.6 assists, including 35.5 points, 10.5 assists, and a .967 free throw percentage (28-29 FT) in the two Game Sevens. As Hakeem Olajuwon wrote on page 282 of his 1996 autobiography, Living the Dream, about K.J. in Game Seven of the 1995 Western Conference Semifinals, "Every time I looked K.J. was driving. When he wasn't penetrating he was pulling up and hitting his jump shots. He was just incredible. It's a trial just being on the same court with someone who is playing so well."

Or consider a couple quotes regarding Game Four of that series, in Houston. Behind K.J.'s 43 points (18-24 FG, 7-7 FT), 9 assists, 6 rebounds, and 3 steals, the Suns had rallied out of a 15-point third quarter hole and squeezed out a 114-110 road playoff victory. In the fourth quarter of that game, NBC play-by-play man Dick Enberg stated the following:

Kevin Johnson is playing like he invented the game of basketball.

Or consider the following quotation from Suns' center Joe Kleine afterward, as reported on page 37 of the May 22, 1995 edition of Sports Illustrated:

When Kevin plays like that, you just get out of his way. Go where he tells you to go and then just stand there and watch the master.

[Kblaze8855]

Seems about 80% of that is some combo of points and assists. Its impressive but its all basically one thing.

As for where K.J. would rank all-time, that's really a subjective question, but certainly a case can be made for the 21-40 range.

No way in hell is Kevin Johnson anywhere starting with a 2. The mere fact that there are 26 MVPs and and like 19-20 guys to lead a team to a title(not all of them on both lists) should throw out any consideration for him being in that area. Barring a few exceptions(and not enough to drop the list under 21) anyone to lead a team to a title or win the MVP should probably be over Kevin Johnson.

Too many accomplishments have to be disregarded to put him that high. Elvin Hayes was a 27/18 player in his prime, led the L in points and rebounds, made several time all nba first teams, 12 all star teams in a row, went to 3 finals and won a title. And he isnt even ranked in the low 20s by most.

Way too many crazy accomplished people to throw KJ that high because to dismiss half of them you have to prop up his winning and bash them for losing and the rest you have to prop up his individual talent and bash the legends who won but didnt have KJs numbers. No consistient way to wipe out that many legends. The reasoning would begin to conflict real fast.

If people with both MVPs and multiple titles as elite players have to be dismissed to put him that high its just not right to try. I mean....I love Scottie Pippen. And hes got a better case than KJ for top 21 but I cant put him over the quality of people id have to to make that case.

[GMATCallahan]

Seems about 80% of that is some combo of points and assists. Its impressive but its all basically one thing.



No way in hell is Kevin Johnson anywhere starting with a 2. The mere fact that there are 26 MVPs and and like 19-20 guys to lead a team to a title(not all of them on both lists) should throw out any consideration for him being in that area. Barring a few exceptions(and not enough to drop the list under 21) anyone to lead a team to a title or win the MVP should probably be over Kevin Johnson.

Too many accomplishments have to be disregarded to put him that high. Elvin Hayes was a 27/18 player in his prime, led the L in points and rebounds, made several time all nba first teams, 12 all star teams in a row, went to 3 finals and won a title. And he isnt even ranked in the low 20s by most.

Way too many crazy accomplished people to throw KJ that high because to dismiss half of them you have to prop up his winning and bash them for losing and the rest you have to prop up his individual talent and bash the legends who won but didnt have KJs numbers. No consistient way to wipe out that many legends. The reasoning would begin to conflict real fast.

If people with both MVPs and multiple titles as elite players have to be dismissed to put him that high its just not right to try. I mean....I love Scottie Pippen. And hes got a better case than KJ for top 21 but I cant put him over the quality of people id have to to make that case.

K.J. was one of the best point guards in history, and I think that most of the great point guards in history start to fall into place in the 20-range. Indeed, a great point guard is more valuable and important than a great player at most other positions aside from center, because he leads an offense, catalyzes baskets, and directly effects the performance of his teammates. Now, I'm not saying that K.J. should necessarily rank that high, but once you reach the twenties, the discussion becomes extremely ambiguous and invites varying possibilities. That's all that I'm saying.

As for the statistical combinations, what separates K.J. in many of those cases is also field goal percentage. He was not just extremely prolific but also extremely efficient (and steals also separates him at one point). Aside from Magic Johnson, no one combined points, assists, and field goal percentage (the three most important statistical catgeories for a star point guard) better than K.J. did. And the point about points and assists is that K.J. is pretty close to the top of the mountain in NBA history in terms of combining them. In many ways, he epitomized the 20-10 point guard.

I don't think that being an MVP necessarily means everything, especially since the award is only pertinent in the context of one's era, and not all eras are created equal. Did Bob McAdoo, Allen Iverson, Kevin Garnett, Dirk Nowitzki, or even Steve Nash lead their respective teams closer to a championship or to more overall success than K.J.? Was their level of play necessarily higher? McAdoo later won a couple championships, but only as a role player off the bench on the eighties Lakers, not as a star.

Likewise, not everyone who "led" a team to a title was superior to K.J. Was Chauncey Billups better? Who was really the leader on the '79 Sonics? And take a legend such as Bob Cousy, who shot .375 from the field for his career and never reached .400 in a single season. Yes, he won six championships with Bill Russell, but Russell won five more championships after Cousy retired. Cousy revolutionzed the game, but frankly, the record indicates that he was not indispensable in the least. He never led a team to elite status before Russell arrived, and Russell won nearly as many championships without Cousy as he won with him.

As for Scottie Pippen, he'd probably make my top twenty-five. He was arguably the greatest all-around small forward in history (taking into account both sides of the ball).

[GMATCallahan]

And for the record, the reason why I said "21-40" is because I was talking loosely in terms of a conceptual range based on the type of performance, production, and value that K.J. offered a team. I don't believe in exact rankings at all, for I feel that they represent a simplistic, contrived, cheap, and fallacious form of analysis that reflects the sadly technocratic and mechanical manner of modern thought. The idea that one player should be "21" and another should necessarily be "22," as if everyone can or should be discretely separated in descending fashion, is ludicrous and represents nothing but bureaucracy and the artificial sway of information science.

I will note that in March 2001, Hubie Brown told K.J. that he was one of the greatest players that Brown had ever seen, in March 2005, Steve "Snapper" Jones said during a telecast that "Everyone forgets what a great player Kevin Johnson was," and that in November 2006, Bill Walton stated during a telecast that K.J. was one of the "brilliant players of [his] era."

Now, I'm not delusional enough to think that K.J. was a top-twenty all-time player, but nor am I simplistic enough to believe that just because Cousy won six rings by playing with Bill Russell, he was necessarily the better player than K.J., or that just because Archibald and Payton played for championship teams, they were necessarily superior. Merely adding up titles or awards can be misleading in a team sport.

[Chalkmaze]

You also are going to overlook his injuries it looks like.

[L.Kizzle]

Kevin Johnson anywhere in then 20's or 30's is not right. KJ was a great player, but top 20-40 is exclusive company and he just not on that level. He had a great 3-4 season run in the late 80's and early 90's but their are a tone of players who have had a good 3-4 season run and they aren't top 20-40. A Bernard King, Steve Nash, Walt Bellamy, types come to mind and those guys are not top 20-40 players.


How I rank Kevin Johnson among guards

Tier One
Jordan, Magic, Robertson, West, ect.

Tier Two
Kobe, Drexler, Ice Gervin, ect.

Tier Three
Hal Greer, Pearl Monroe, Pistol Pete, Tiny, ect

Tier Four
Sidney Moncrief, Fat Lever, Ray Allen

Tier Five
Terry Porter, Andrew Toney, ect.


KJ could go anywhere from tier three to tier four on that list but know higher or lower.

[GMATCallahan]

Kevin Johnson anywhere in then 20's or 30's is not right. KJ was a great player, but top 20-40 is exclusive company and he just not on that level. He had a great 3-4 season run in the late 80's and early 90's but their are a tone of players who have had a good 3-4 season run and they aren't top 20-40. A Bernard King, Steve Nash, Walt Bellamy, types come to mind and those guys are not top 20-40 players.


How I rank Kevin Johnson among guards

Tier One
Jordan, Magic, Robertson, West, ect.

Tier Two
Kobe, Drexler, Ice Gervin, ect.

Tier Three
Hal Greer, Pearl Monroe, Pistol Pete, Tiny, ect

Tier Four
Sidney Moncrief, Fat Lever, Ray Allen

Tier Five
Terry Porter, Andrew Toney, ect.


KJ could go anywhere from tier three to tier four on that list but know higher or lower.

I disagree. First, the fourth tier is much too low for K.J. Guards like Moncrief, Lever, and Allen were fine players, but they were limited in the kind of impact that they could make and where they could lead a team. The third tier is acceptable, but I think that K.J. could fit in quite well in the second tier. If you look at him and Drexler, their value was really pretty similar, and K.J. elevated his teammates in ways that Bryant and Gervin could not. There's more to basketball than volume scoring and one-on-one play, and in fact, I might place Archibald in the second tier as well.

You talk about K.J.'s three-four years, but they represented one of the best three-four year runs in NBA history, by anyone. From 1989-1991, K.J. became the third player ever to average at least 20.0 points and 10.0 assists in each of three consecutive seasons (joining Oscar Robertson and Isiah Thomas), averaging 21.7 points, 11.3 assists, a .507 field goal percentage, an .854 free throw percentage, 3.8 rebounds, and 1.7 steals. From 1989-1992, K.J. averaged 21.2 points, 11.1 assists, a .500 field goal percentage, an .843 free throw percentage, 3.8 rebounds, and 1.6 steals. I challenge you to find how many guards in NBA history have ever put up numbers at that level over a three or four-year stretch, especially combining that degree of production in both points and assists with that stratum of shooting efficiency. I believe that the only guy who'll you find at that level in each of the "big three" categories (points, assists, and field goal percentage, the three most important for a star guard) is Magic Johnson, who from 1987-1990 averaged 22.1 points, 12.1 assists, a .502 field goal percentage, and an .876 free throw percentage (plus 6.8 rebounds and 1.7 steals). The only other player who'll be in that ballpark is Oscar Robertson.

What's true of three-four years is also true of nine. Over a nine-season run from 1989-1997, K.J. averaged 19.8 points, 10.0 assists, and a .497 field goal percentage. Again, the only other players in NBA history to reach a similar level of elite effectiveness in all three categories (which, again, are the three most important for a star guard and especially a star point guard) are Magic Johnson from 1983-1991 (20.0/12.2/.518) and Oscar Robertson from 1962-1970 (29.1/10.3/.490). Those three (Magic, Oscar, K.J.) are in a league of their own when combining elite effectiveness in the most vital statistical categories for a star playmaker, and only Magic combined greatness in all three better than K.J. over either a three-four year run or virtually an entire decade.