Obsession with Kobe Bryant?

[tragicbronson]

What is it about him that attracts so many both fans and haters. Even though he is clearly well past his prime and isn't as relevant i'd say he is the top mentioned person here. I am a big Kobe fan, i really love his game, his attitude, his passion etc and these hate threads that are supposed to make fun of Kobe doesn't mean nothing to me or affect my opinion on Kobe in any way but i still see so many of them coming.

I know that he is a historically big player, many consider him being top 10 while others think he is nowhere close. I don't like these lists so... I think he is a very unique player and that's why i like him, i also like players like andre miller, Tim Duncan etc, but Kobe is my favourite.

Back on topic, while we have here could be just as many LeBron love/hate threads this is expected and normal because he is a best player today and a great player in "all time" conversations and when such a player is in his prime it's normal that people who love him post about it just as people who love other players or hate LBJ for some other reason post about him.

But why are we still having so many Kobe conversations, his retirement is close, his legacy won't improve nor go down, the thing is, it seems to me that there are more haters than ever, people consider mocking Kobe about his shot percentage or selfishness "in" and it is kind of sad when such a great player is playing his last seasons and players like him don't come very often so i think we should respect his legacy, game and career and let him retire in peace...

[Jacks3]

kobe's entire career was just a total perfect storm to produce the single most polarizing player in nba history (arguably). flashy on-ball volume scorer, and there is no style of play that is more polarizing than that. gets drafted to the most hated and most high-profile team in the league. then you have the feud with shaq and the feud with phil and the rape case. you have the comparisons with jordan, the accusations of mimicry, first guard ever taken out of high-school, accusations and many debates about his selfishness and arrogance and fakeness. and then you have the fact he won 5 rings, which means hes essentially become the poster-boy the ringzzzz debate, and he was slowing down during the rise of analytics, and he became the poster-boy for the old-school vs analytic debate (which never made sense because his advanced stats are absolutely phenomenal) and blah blah blah. i'm rambling but like i said... it was the perfect storm.

[red1]

kobe's entire career was just a total perfect storm to produce the single most polarizing player in nba history (arguably). flashy on-ball volume scorer, and there is no style of play that is more polarizing than that. gets drafted to the most hated and most high-profile team in the league. then you have the feud with shaq and the feud with phil and the rape case. you have the comparisons with jordan, the accusations of mimicry, first guard ever taken out of high-school, accusations and many debates about his selfishness and arrogance and fakeness. and then you have the fact he won 5 rings, which means hes essentially become the poster-boy the ringzzzz debate, and he was slowing down during the rise of analytics, and he became the poster-boy for the old-school vs analytic debate (which never made sense because his advanced stats are absolutely phenomenal) and blah blah blah. i'm rambling but like i said... it was the perfect storm.

True. Super-polarizing player with a lot to take in. I am a huge fan of the skillset but am lukewarm to his playstyle. Fan of his current attitude and personality, but dislike his local bandwagon fans. Respect the work ethic and determination to overcome doubts (can't win without shaq, won't win again, overcoming rape charge, etc) but do acknowledge that he can be contrived and forced at times.

All-in-all he is a top 10 GOAT and one of the most entertaining players of all time. Will suck to lose a legend like that.

[JohnMax]

I stopped hating Kobe when I became a Lebron hater

[superteamtheory]

in a sentence: he wanted to be MJ 2.0 ... that was more or less his motivation ... he had tunnel vision like few players ever in his quest to achieve this...
and after all the drama he was just "like Mike"... but not quite his equal ...

I think that's the unique aspect of why Kobe gets so much hate ..

the truer thing tho is that it's not just him -- it's everybody in or around his generation..

... they were the most hyped generation ever and they all got buried in backlash by the end of it -- Vince Carter went first when he didn't develop into a poorman's MJ-like talent, then Allen Iverson when he never made it back to Finals, then T-Mac when he never made it out of first round, Kobe got criticism throughout but it seems to me the most serious accusations -- the criticisms of his game -- came after he didn't get a 6th or 7th ring as some believed he might, now LeBron The Chosen One is getting it... Dwight Superboy Howard, Mello & Chris Paul too and even Wade has had his haters.. (there were some others along the way maybe.. even Dirk and moreso Nash took some heat at times..) all these guys were considered failures next to Tim neverhyped Duncan and other overachievers (Paul Pierce for example made VC, AI and Mac look bad at times) ... people never ever thought the Spurs would amount to 5 championships -- those rings were supposed to be Toronto's, Philly's, Houston's, L.A.'s MJ 6 moment etc., Phoenix's, Orlando's, Miami's, Cleveland's...

now some will cut me off here and say this is the problem with hype and myths about what players are capable of but I think it was much more complicated than all that. T-Mac for example came a lot closer, IMO, than people realize... the Rockets were slowly but surely developing a contender, they just needed time to add some depth to back up Yao & Mac -- by the time they added a resurrected Ron Artest (amongst others) and made a key coaching change, it was too late, T-Mac had a career ending injury just in time to ruin his best shot at a championship.. (A.I. never had a real shot, VC was overhyped but also a greater player than given credit for in the end and the Toronto mismanagement situation wasn't his fault neither were injuries, LeBron's a complex case but IMO mostly a case of haters... all the guys I mention are better than given credit for really... the current internet fandom age is something to study in itself why the judgement is so harsh... maybe also has a bit to do with disconnect between richer than ever players and fickle "fans"...)

I don't think Kobe gets more hate than these others, proportionate to how many fans and supports he has, I do think the judgements for him are a little more dramatic than for other players, however, because of their relation to MJ and how some felt he was the second coming.. LeBron is the only other guy who truly knows that weight (for VC the comparisons stopped early in his career) and I actually think LeBron is now officially by far the most hated on player ever, far worse than Kobe, tho I see how some may feel Kobe is comparable... and maybe only those two can understand what the other goes through (altho I think VC, Mac & A.I. can relate a lot in very meaningful ways relative to their lower expectations)...

Kobe finally winning a few rings as the man did a lot to help his situation and cement his legacy as a top 10 type player (to anybody who likes basketball) ... but his inability to win one or two more (considering he had the head start gift from Shaq) reopened the controversies and inevitably left the lingering question why wasn't he MJ's equal? there are a lot of obvious reasons why: Kobe was a less strong, skinnier version and had to overcome that, but it goes deeper of course... the verdict is he didn't play well with others but I will never believe that, or I think that's oversimplifying anyway... the reality? he had to go through a difficult mid-career rebuild that threw away a few of his prime years -- he suffered some of exactly what VC, AI and Bron went through with their original clubs -- then late in his career just caught some bad breaks whereas MJ has gained momentum with his franchise and was soaring bull... MJ worshippers will never cop to his good fortunes in a thousand years... Duncan worshippers may not do so either... the reality: MJ and Duncan benefited from great management choices made during their time, even if it's also true both guys were great sports about working through trying times... people forget tho that Kobe was patient too and Bron gave it a shot, observed objectively/correctly the franchise was going nowhere fast, left so they could rebuild, then came back like clockwork...

Kobe was the all too human, more tragic version of the MJ story in some respects (whereas MJ was a more-than-human saint).. and people will be talking about that aspect of his career forever.. there's a lot of mini-dramas within the bigger drama of Kobe's career, as is the case with Bron.. it wasn't just one thing but there's no doubt about it: these two were set up as the two king heirs to the NBA kingdom once His Airness retired ... there were supposed to be three kings... that was the narrative set up in the mid-Noughties by the media and fans alike and when the kingdom began to crumble (under the Spurs Empire reign in the darkest-of-outcomes timeline) you started to see how self-serving the media machine is and how many fans never really were fans and you also got to see how the league's high priests like to spin stories about basketball intellectual superiority in order to sweep under the rug the business side of the league because it's depressing and doesn't fit into the beliefs (myths) about the invincibility of champions... it was everybody's first reactions to the greatness of these players that was real... what came later was rationalization -- rats jumping a sinking NBA ship... blame Stern for never figuring out how to bring balance to the league, don't burn the heroes at the cross...

alas tho, to me it honestly just makes Kobe and Bron even more compelling... all the psychological **** they had to endure...

[SugarHill]

great responses

[Beastmode88]

People wanted a new mj.

[GIF REACTION]

in a sentence: he wanted to be MJ 2.0 ... that was more or less his motivation ... he had tunnel vision like few players ever in his quest to achieve this...
and after all the drama he was just "like Mike"... but not quite his equal ...

I think that's the unique aspect of why Kobe gets so much hate ..

the truer thing tho is that it's not just him -- it's everybody in or around his generation..

... they were the most hyped generation ever and they all got buried in backlash by the end of it -- Vince Carter went first when he didn't develop into a poorman's MJ-like talent, then Allen Iverson when he never made it back to Finals, then T-Mac when he never made it out of first round, Kobe got criticism throughout but it seems to me the most serious accusations -- the criticisms of his game -- came after he didn't get a 6th or 7th ring as some believed he might, now LeBron The Chosen One is getting it... Dwight Superboy Howard, Mello & Chris Paul too and even Wade has had his haters.. (there were some others along the way maybe.. even Dirk and moreso Nash took some heat at times..) all these guys were considered failures next to Tim neverhyped Duncan and other overachievers (Paul Pierce for example made VC, AI and Mac look bad at times) ... people never ever thought the Spurs would amount to 5 championships -- those rings were supposed to be Toronto's, Philly's, Houston's, L.A.'s MJ 6 moment etc., Phoenix's, Orlando's, Miami's, Cleveland's...

now some will cut me off here and say this is the problem with hype and myths about what players are capable of but I think it was much more complicated than all that. T-Mac for example came a lot closer, IMO, than people realize... the Rockets were slowly but surely developing a contender, they just needed time to add some depth to back up Yao & Mac -- by the time they added a resurrected Ron Artest (amongst others) and made a key coaching change, it was too late, T-Mac had a career ending injury just in time to ruin his best shot at a championship.. (A.I. never had a real shot, VC was overhyped but also a greater player than given credit for in the end and the Toronto mismanagement situation wasn't his fault neither were injuries, LeBron's a complex case but IMO mostly a case of haters... all the guys I mention are better than given credit for really... the current internet fandom age is something to study in itself why the judgement is so harsh... maybe also has a bit to do with disconnect between richer than ever players and fickle "fans"...)

I don't think Kobe gets more hate than these others, proportionate to how many fans and supports he has, I do think the judgements for him are a little more dramatic than for other players, however, because of their relation to MJ and how some felt he was the second coming.. LeBron is the only other guy who truly knows that weight (for VC the comparisons stopped early in his career) and I actually think LeBron is now officially by far the most hated on player ever, far worse than Kobe, tho I see how some may feel Kobe is comparable... and maybe only those two can understand what the other goes through (altho I think VC, Mac & A.I. can relate a lot in very meaningful ways relative to their lower expectations)...

Kobe finally winning a few rings as the man did a lot to help his situation and cement his legacy as a top 10 type player (to anybody who likes basketball) ... but his inability to win one or two more (considering he had the head start gift from Shaq) reopened the controversies and inevitably left the lingering question why wasn't he MJ's equal? there are a lot of obvious reasons why: Kobe was a less strong, skinnier version and had to overcome that, but it goes deeper of course... the verdict is he didn't play well with others but I will never believe that, or I think that's oversimplifying anyway... the reality? he had to go through a difficult mid-career rebuild that threw away a few of his prime years -- he suffered some of exactly what VC, AI and Bron went through with their original clubs -- then late in his career just caught some bad breaks whereas MJ has gained momentum with his franchise and was soaring bull... MJ worshippers will never cop to his good fortunes in a thousand years... Duncan worshippers may not do so either... the reality: MJ and Duncan benefited from great management choices made during their time, even if it's also true both guys were great sports about working through trying times... people forget tho that Kobe was patient too and Bron gave it a shot, observed objectively/correctly the franchise was going nowhere fast, left so they could rebuild, then came back like clockwork...

Kobe was the all too human, more tragic version of the MJ story in some respects (whereas MJ was a more-than-human saint).. and people will be talking about that aspect of his career forever.. there's a lot of mini-dramas within the bigger drama of Kobe's career, as is the case with Bron.. it wasn't just one thing but there's no doubt about it: these two were set up as the two king heirs to the NBA kingdom once His Airness retired ... there were supposed to be three kings... that was the narrative set up in the mid-Noughties by the media and fans alike and when the kingdom began to crumble (under the Spurs Empire reign in the darkest-of-outcomes timeline) you started to see how self-serving the media machine is and how may fans never really were and you also got to see how the league's high priests like to spin stories about basketball intellectual superiority in order to sweep under the rug the business side of the league because it's depressing and doesn't fit into the beliefs (myths) about the invincibility of champions... it was everybody's first reactions to the greatness of these players that was real... what came later was rationalization -- rats jumping a sinking NBA ship... blame Stern for never figuring out how to bring balance to the league, don't burn the heroes at the cross...

alas tho, to me it honestly just makes Kobe and Bron even more compelling... all the psychological **** they had to endure...

[kennethgriffin]

people like kobe because hes literally a once in a generation type superstar

when you really think about it... kobe is still the only guy since MJ to be

- an all time popular/must see/hyped/iconic/superstar/leagues best player/all time legend individually



and combine it with


- all time legendary success




duncan and shaq had the success.. but werent loved/worshipped like kobe/lebron. probably because duncan was boring and shaq was a big man with ugly moves asside from his dunks. people hated him for being cheap and not being able to shoot free throws

lebron was loved and had everything but the success.. hes looked at as a choking underachiever that flops in the finals





kobe is the only guy to combine the 2 things that make a guy untouchable




and how many of those flashy/loved by fans/multiverse all time legends are there really?



russell = success but not worshipped
wilt = worshipped but lacked success
kareem = success but not worshipped
oscar = worshipped but lacked success
west = worshipped but lacked success


magic
bird
jordan
kobe

only 4 all time supreme legendary icons with both sides of the field complete

[Megabox!]

I actually like Kobe and LBJ more than I like MJ based on the fact that have so many mindless haters. Especially in this modern age of the internet where any moron can simply type hateful comments whenever they feel like it.

[Akrazotile]

In the internet and 24 hour news age, pretty much every star who becomes super popular will create a group of fans who feel the opposite, bc theyre sick of hearing about him all the time on the internet and television.

Back in the day there was no anonymous internet opinion. If you went against the grain on a player at a bar or at the water cooler, you had be prepared to get a bunch of crazy looks and backlash, which most people arent.

In MJ's day all you heard from was the media, which is generally player-friendly, and you didnt have the whole world plugged in online giving anonymous opinions. If you did, there would have been TONS of Magic and Bird stans trashing MJ every chance they got.

[Akrazotile]

I actually like Kobe and LBJ more than I like MJ based on the fact that have so many mindless haters. Especially in this modern age of the internet where any moron can simply type hateful comments whenever they feel like it.

Ah, I see this guy beat me to it.

[GimmeThat]

In the case of popularity, more so about whether or not fanatics or analysts believe in statement games.

the other is just more so about whether or not someone gets jealous over your peer receiving a promotion.

[ShawkFactory]

His fans are annoying. It's as though choosing to be a fan of someone or some franchise thats great makes them great somehow.

Only in college football are there fans as bad as the Lakers.

[AnaheimLakers24]

Goat