At their best, who was better? - Jason Kidd, Gary Payton or Steve Nash?

[plowking]

Payton is the best, Kidd the worst out of that lot.

Kidd gets consistently overrated on this board. This is coming from someone who actually watched him, and wasn't amazed by his triple doubles like some. A lot of them were hollow, empty, and meaningless. Not to mention his sub 40% shooting is a detriment to your team anyway you look at it.

[Heavincent]

This is coming from someone who actually watched him, and wasn't amazed by his triple doubles like some. A lot of them were hollow, empty, and meaningless.

I'd like to hear an explanation for this BS. Should be good.

[miller-time]

Nash's reputation was significantly boosted with D'Antoni's style of play, and the rule changes after 2004.

To be fair this is when Nash was coming into his prime. He had already made 2 all-star teams with Dallas in 02 and 03, so it isn't like he was just a random starter before 2004. Also that Suns team the previous season was 29-53 and then with the addition of Nash went to 62-20 (there is a reason he won that MVP award). You could say D'Antoni also benefited from the rule changes, but he has only had one winning season without Nash on his team.

Also just because a player flourishes under a specific coaches style of play doesn't detract from them as a player. Generally every player will play better under one coach than another.

[BuGzBuNNy]

To be fair this is when Nash was coming into his prime. He had already made 2 all-star teams with Dallas in 02 and 03, so it isn't like he was just a random starter before 2004. Also that Suns team the previous season was 29-53 and then with the addition of Nash went to 62-20 (there is a reason he won that MVP award). You could say D'Antoni also benefited from the rule changes, but he has only had one winning season without Nash on his team.

Also just because a player flourishes under a specific coaches style of play doesn't detract from them as a player. Generally every player will play better under one coach than another.

On top of that go look at the stats of guys like Amare, Marion and Joe Johnson in 04 and 05. He made all them a hell of a lot better.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Payton is the best, Kidd the worst out of that lot.

Kidd gets consistently overrated on this board. This is coming from someone who actually watched him, and wasn't amazed by his triple doubles like some. A lot of them were hollow, empty, and meaningless. Not to mention his sub 40% shooting is a detriment to your team anyway you look at it.

Apparently you didn't see what he was working w/ in Jersey? He took an AT BEST decent roster to the finals....twice.

[plowking]

Apparently you didn't see what he was working w/ in Jersey? He took an AT BEST decent roster to the finals....twice.

I knew this would come up.

Its like people that simply think Nash was the reason the Suns went from 20 something wins to 60 odd...
Its just the right cog for the machine, that allows it to run well as a team.

Kidd is a great point guard, but hes just not as good as some people like to make out.

[Hamtaro CP3KDKG]

Payton for sure

[ProfessorMurder]

Kidd can play some defense and orchestrate an offense.
Nash can light it up offensively.

Payton can do some of both, and is more well rounded. I take Payton every time for my team.

[miller-time]

Its like people that simply think Nash was the reason the Suns went from 20 something wins to 60 odd...
Its just the right cog for the machine, that allows it to run well as a team.

Nash may have been the best possible cog for that team, but that doesn't take anything away from him as a player. As I said before, he was already a 2 time all-star before he went to the Suns, it isn't like he magically fit into the Suns roster and he suddenly blew up. He was already moving into his prime before Phoenix and reached it while he was there. Every player is going to (or can) be in circumstances that put them ahead of where they might be on an ordinary team. If Jordan wasn't playing on a team with Scottie and Phil could he have still achieved what he did? Maybe, maybe not. If he didn't would that mean he is a worse player? No, he would still be MJ, just MJ on a team that didn't fit so well for him.

[iamgine]

I used to be one of those people who said those 2 MVPs Nash got was a big mistake. I mean, over Kobe and Duncan? You gotta be joking. Clearly those 2 players must be better right? Then I started to follow Nash over a few games. My view totally change. My goodness, he's totally unstoppable. One of the smartest player I've ever seen stepped on the court. I would put him up there with Magic Johnson. Steve Nash was a combination of one of the most accurate shooter and one of the most elite playmaker in NBA history. He just...wreck the opposing defense again and again.

And he got a somewhat undeserved rep on defense. He does try hard, and while still a liability, he's not as bad as many people make him out to be. He's really bad against certain type of players but otherwise a decent defender. Plus PG position is the least important defense-wise.

I have no doubt in my mind that had the Suns played with a good defensive big back in mid 2000s, they'd have dominated the league. To be fair though, I do think the no handcheck rule helped Nash a lot.

[Sharmer]

MJ better than those puppets.

[miller-time]

And he got a somewhat undeserved rep on defense. He does try hard, and while still a liability, he's not as bad as many people make him out to be. He's really bad against certain type of players but otherwise a decent defender. Plus PG position is the least important defense-wise.

Agreed. He is not a great defender, but people make him out to be a cardboard cut out. He definitely puts in effort on the defensive end. I was watching him with the Lakers this year and he is (nearly) always where he is supposed to be.

[AussieG]

Jason Kidd for who he was as a player, in terms of individual skill and talent.

Steve Nash for the team he had around him and his influence on that team, and the success he had with them.

[dyna]

1) Kidd
2) Payton
3) Nash

[Reggie43]

The clear answer to anyone who watched those players whole careers is Payton. It gets tricky when ranking the other two because it mainly boils down to preference.