Career MVP shares

[tpols]

Overall a decent measure.

I think Career MVP shares comes closest to ranking the players all time of any single statistical measure.

Regular season monsters like Karl Malone are overrated by this measure, and guys who raise their level of play during the playoffs are underrated.

Also the problem of nash, who didnt deserve his to MVPs. Also the Nash mvps were in relatively weak years. So weak era players are also given a boost.

I was thinking about what it would look like if I added a 1 for every title won as a top 5 elite player in the league. ie MJ would have 6 + 8.1, Karl would still have what he has now, so him and Nash would fall a bunch.. Hakeem would move into top 10 and so forth

[MavsSuperFan]

I was thinking about what it would look like if I added a 1 for every title won as a top 5 elite player in the league. ie MJ would have 6 + 8.1, Karl would still have what he has now, so him and Nash would fall a bunch.. Hakeem would move into top 10 and so forth

Rings are kind of a team accomplishment though.

Maybe a full point is too much.

[tpols]

Rings are kind of a team accomplishment though.

Maybe a full point is too much.

Yea it would definitely have to be weighted in the same way MVP shares are.. ie Dirk might get a .95 for his 2011, Kobe might get a .7 for 2001, Bran might get a .85 or so for 2012 etc

[TheCorporation]

No dumb idea this underrates the playoff monsters like Shaq, Hakeem and Dirk

As in 9 first round exit playoff monster Hakeem?

[TheCorporation]

I was thinking about what it would look like if I added a 1 for every title won as a top 5 elite player in the league. ie MJ would have 6 + 8.1, Karl would still have what he has now, so him and Nash would fall a bunch.. Hakeem would move into top 10 and so forth

That's actually not a bad idea, just don't let Hollinger get ahold of this! He will create a formula of some sort and call it MPCRS (MVP Plus Championships Ranking System)

Shit too late...Here we have it folks, MPCRS

[tpols]

That's actually not a bad idea, just don't let Hollinger get ahold of this! He will create a formula of some sort and call it MPCRS (MVP Plus Championships Ranking System)

Shit too late...Here we have it folks, MPCRS

[secund2nun]

All of these stats completely underrate defense. Look at how low Hakeem is that's a joke. PER also basically ignores defense as well.

[tpols]

All of these stats completely underrate defense. Look at how low Hakeem is that's a joke. PER also basically ignores defense as well.

Not at all.. Look at Bill Russell.. thats mostly for his defensive impact. He was voted more valuable over Oscar and Wilt many years because of his defensive and overall leadership.. and they of course were the ones with the gaudy offensive numbers.


Hakeem just wasnt getting as many MVP votes as other players at the time he was playing in his career. And if we were making cases just on regular seasons I dont think people would be shocked at Hakeem being 15th or so. His two playoff rings massively boosted his legacy and this is using a regular season metric so it has him depicted quite accurately for what it is measuring.

[TheCorporation]

Although I might say something like 1 point for Finals MVP and .5 for a ring, but you get my drift.

Man, we need to build MPCRS!

[MichaelCorleone]

That's actually not a bad idea, just don't let Hollinger get ahold of this! He will create a formula of some sort and call it MPCRS (MVP Plus Championships Ranking System)

Shit too late...Here we have it folks, MPCRS

Nice stats. Lebron and MJ would dominate the ranking.

[Psileas]

MJ 8.1
KAJ 6.2
Bird 5.7
Lebron 5.4
Magic 5.2
Russell 4.8
Shaq 4.4
Karl Malone 4.3
Wilt 4.3
Duncan 4.3
Kobe 4.2
David Robinson 3.1
Moses 2.9
KG 2.7
Bob Petit 2.6
Hakeem 2.6
Big O 2.4
Barkley 2.4
Nash 2.4
West 2.0
Durant 2.0
Dirk 1.9
Baylor 1.7
Iverson 1.5
McaDoo 1.5

Bolded players are either too high or too low. Not an accurate list at all. Completely different rules of voting among eras make it so:

-Once, only players voted. Nowadays, no player votes. Different things were valued.
-Old voters were at times heavily biased in favor of certain players they liked and against others. So, it was almost impossible for someone to get an MVP share anywhere near as high as now, regardless of how dominant a season he had. Now, it's almost a no-brainer that a strong MVP candidate a la LeBron will get a top-5 vote by everyone. Not so back then. Someone like 2012 LeBron might only have had a .700 MVP share and you might see names like Westbrook get votes for #1.
-Some seasons, each voter could only cast 1 vote, not 5. Hence, much lower MVP shares for virtually every real MVP candidate.

[Psileas]

http://www.basketball-reference.com/..._1962.html#mvp

Wilt's and Oscar's mythical statistical seasons in '62 failed to even crack 0.400 shares.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/...1977.html#mvp]

Prime, if not peak, Kareem with only a .644 share. Champion Walton (top-2 player) at 0.117...

Compare to this:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/..._2012.html#mvp

Durant gets only 20% of MVP votes and still has a 0.735 share. In 1977, this would have given him only 0.198 shares.

[ArbitraryWater]

Does this give a good all time list?

MJ 8.1
KAJ 6.2
Bird 5.7
Lebron 5.4
Magic 5.2
Russell 4.8
Shaq 4.4
Karl Malone 4.3
Wilt 4.3
Duncan 4.3
Kobe 4.2
David Robinson 3.1
Moses 2.9
KG 2.7
Bob Petit 2.6
Hakeem 2.6
Big O 2.4
Barkley 2.4
Nash 2.4
West 2.0
Durant 2.0
Dirk 1.9
Baylor 1.7
Iverson 1.5
McaDoo 1.5

Aside from Karl Malone and Nash, looks like a decent list. Karl is the only player in the top 17 without any rings though.. so his regular season success doesnt match his postseason. Nash of course won two flukish ones and didnt really compete on a regular basis.

Everyone seems to be grouped right where they usually are.. also the biggest gap occurs between the top 10-11 players of all time.. theres a clear 1.0 schism there between them and the next group

See, Kobetards. On the regular MVP VOTES MAKE SENSE. Evidenced here.. Decent list, some tweaks here or there but overall we can see its accurate. no total flukes, bums or no names in there, outside of mcadoo all top 50 greats.

[ArbitraryWater]

Yea it would definitely have to be weighted in the same way MVP shares are.. ie Dirk might get a .95 for his 2011, Kobe might get a .7 for 2001, Bran might get a .85 or so for 2012 etc

.85? Both ESPN Articles listed it as 2nd Greatest Run Ever (Jordan 91 1st)

Give it a .95 too

[DMAVS41]

Does this give a good all time list?

MJ 8.1
KAJ 6.2
Bird 5.7
Lebron 5.4
Magic 5.2
Russell 4.8
Shaq 4.4
Karl Malone 4.3
Wilt 4.3
Duncan 4.3
Kobe 4.2
David Robinson 3.1
Moses 2.9
KG 2.7
Bob Petit 2.6
Hakeem 2.6
Big O 2.4
Barkley 2.4
Nash 2.4
West 2.0
Durant 2.0
Dirk 1.9
Baylor 1.7
Iverson 1.5
McaDoo 1.5

Aside from Karl Malone and Nash, looks like a decent list. Karl is the only player in the top 17 without any rings though.. so his regular season success doesnt match his postseason. Nash of course won two flukish ones and didnt really compete on a regular basis.

Everyone seems to be grouped right where they usually are.. also the biggest gap occurs between the top 10-11 players of all time.. theres a clear 1.0 schism there between them and the next group

You forgot David Robinson...he's way too high. He's not a top 20 player of all time.

But yea, MVP award shares is pretty good for determining regular season stuff...or at least it should be factored in.