Felton vs. Norman (The Chamberlain\Russell Thread)

[G.O.A.T]

Russell shuts down Chamberlain holds him to just 38 ppg

Russell Talk about Wilt, their friendship, their era and their battles.



Bill owns Chamberlain so much he eats his Moms food and Sleeps in Wilts Bed...


Wilt on Russell: The Video Russell Mentioned



Russell's Take on the Same Things



1964 NBA Finals Game Four

(7 Parts all listed to the right.)



Wilt talks about the Celtics and beating them in 1967 with Philly.



Russell and Chamberlain Interviewed Together by Bob Costas



The Beginning of Russell vs. Chamberlain and Beyond



Classic Confrontations Wilt vs. Russell




1967 ECF Wilt's 76ers and Russell's Celtics:: Game 4

Playlist - 5 Parts

Links to Other Wilt and Russell Threads (Please merge mods or admin)

Bill Russell vs. Wilt Chamberlain

[ShaqAttack3234]

Bump: Got lost in the Weekend Clutter

No thoughts on the two greatest Big Men ever or reaction to the the videos or game links included in this thread?

My only thought is that the bolded statement is incorrect. Kareem is number 1 and either Shaq or Wilt is number 2.

[quasimoto]

Funny that they were already saying that in 1988.

[GP_20]

My only thought is that the bolded statement is incorrect. Kareem is number 1 and either Shaq or Wilt is number 2.

I agree. And it's Kareem and Wilt for sure. Russell and O'Neal and Hakeem are all pretty close to each other.

[ShaqAttack3234]

I agree. And it's Kareem and Wilt for sure. Russell and O'Neal and Hakeem are all pretty close to each other.

I disagree, Shaq and Wilt are right there with eachother in my opinion. I alternate them all the time, I can't really decide between them.

[G.O.A.T]

C'mon you two, obviously that's not the point of this thread and if you're both too stubbrun to acknowledge that there is an equally (if not more) valid argument for Russ and Wilt over any other two centers ever than there is no reason to ever talk to either of you about hoops.

In the interview with Payton, Webber and Steve Smith Russell says "It's more important to Understand than to be understood"

Advice you both need to bear in mind going forward if you ever want to get smarter and not just convince other people how smart you think you are.

[ShaqAttack3234]

I'd love to hear a valid argument for Russell over Kareem or Shaq other than 11 rings.

[G.O.A.T]

I'd love to hear a valid argument for Russell over Kareem or Shaq other than 11 rings.

That's all you need, if you don't understand that do some homework.

But I'd say 5 MVP's and constantly being in the top four his entire career is pretty good.

Also second most rebounds ever and would easily have the most blocks if it was a stat

Highest APG in the postseason ever for a center

More top 10 assist finishes in the season than any other center

watch the videos do some homework and get back to me.

Going forward I'd really like to turn this discussion away from all players except Wilt and Russ for the the sake of the thread.

[RedZiggyZag]

Russell was the better 5 on 5 player and Wilt was the better 1 on 1 player. How many players does a game of basketball consist of? 5 Correct? So Russell is the better choice for me. Now you factor in the awards, accolades and the championships. It becomes clear who's better....Russell.

Something Coach Herm Edwards said.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IMk5sMHj58I

[1987_Lakers]

I'd love to hear a valid argument for Russell over Kareem or Shaq other than 11 rings.

The thing is you just can't ignore Russell's 11 rings. Not to mention he does have 5 NBA MVPs. The fact that Russell won the NBA MVP in 1962 in a landslide considering Wilt averaged 50 PPG & Oscar Robertson averaged a triple double that year just tells you how good he was. I'm not saying Russell was a better player than Kareem or Chamberlain, but an argument can definitely be made.

Top 5 Centers in NBA History
1. Kareem
2. Wilt
3. Russell
4. Shaq
5. Hakeem

[ShaqAttack3234]

That's all you need, if you don't understand that do some homework.

But I'd say 5 MVP's and constantly being in the top four his entire career is pretty good.

Also second most rebounds ever and would easily have the most blocks if it was a stat

Highest APG in the postseason ever for a center

More top 10 assist finishes in the season than any other center

watch the videos do some homework and get back to me.

Going forward I'd really like to turn this discussion away from all players except Wilt and Russ for the the sake of the thread.

I did watch the videos and from watching them it seemed laughable to suggest Russell was better than Shaq and Kareem who truly dominated. He can have all of the assist numbers in the world, but he was not a better passer than Shaq or Kareem. Both were capable of more difficult passes from what I saw and because of their scoring ability, they drew far more double teams.

Then we have scoring which is what makes the comparison laughable. Shaq and Kareem were hands down top 3 scorers at their position and truly unstoppable. Russell was not even a top 20 scorer.

Russell has the edge as far as defense, but consider the huge advantage that guys like Ben Wallace and Mutombo have over guys like Daugherty and Yao defensively. But not one GM would take the former over the latter. Hell, you have a guy like Zo who was one of the best defenders ever and a great scorer himself(20-23 ppg), but no GM is taking him over Shaq. The bottom line is it's easier to build around a great low post scorer who is still a defensive presence than a great defender who is merely good offensively.

Russell won 11 titles with 1/4 the amount of teams and he played on a stacked team that is far beyond anything Shaq played with or even Kareem during his actualy pime('70-'80).

Despite Russell's pace advantage(which is the main reason for his rebounding and assist advantage) Shaq and Kareem are still more impressive statistically and both won a ton of titles themselves. Hell, Kareem won more MVP's than Russell as well.

[L.Kizzle]

They played over 160+ times I believe.

[G.O.A.T]

They played over 160+ times I believe.

Basically every year in the 1960's they had a playoff series, plus they used to play each team 7-12 times a year. So it wouldn't be entirely impossible.

I'll never understand how so many people can see a guy like Russell who comes to a franchise with no rings, wins his rookie year then 9 of the next 11 years watches ever player on the team when he got there leave and be replaced, than wins in his last season and then the next season his team misses the playoffs for the first time since he got there.

The goal of the game is to win titles. Russell won more, by far than any other superstar ever. He was more MVP's than his contemporary Wilt who put up better numbers than any player ever and it's not even close, Wilt admits that it was because of Russell the Celtics won the titles and that with him in Bill's place they'd not have won as many or even close and still people want to argue about his greatness because he didn't score as much.

Newsflash, he didn't need to or want to. He understood that the team as a whole plays better when each player could stick to their greatest strengths and he made that happen.

Russell is the Greatest center ever and to me it's not debatable. That said, I can see the arguments for others, but I've yet to hear anyone on here make anything close to a valid argument.

Just a lot of people citing stats and showing how little they know and are willing to learn about the NBA before 1980.

Again, the goal is to win anyway you can, the Celtics were not a dramatically better team at any point than their competition, yet everyone says how stacked they were. Numerous teams have had better players and every superstar in the history of the NBA has had a better cast than Russell in '68 and '69 and yet few if any carried their teams to titles.

Russell was the Coach while he was an MVP candidate, imagine how insane that is.

He was the first Black coach to win a title in any major sport, the first Black coach period in the NBA. The first Black MVP, the reason they created the All-Defensive Team and the guy who the NBA Championship Trophy is named after. He's Jackie Robinson, Babe Ruth, The Heisman and the Cy Young wrapped in one athlete.

The greatest winner ever in a business where the bottom line is winning.

Kids...

[ShaqAttack3234]

Russell is the Greatest center ever and to me it's not debatable. That said, I can see the arguments for others, but I've yet to hear anyone on here make anything close to a valid argument.

That's fine and to me it's the exact opposite. I haven't seen a valid argument for him being the greatest. Great player and defintley top 10 all time, but to compare rings with Shaq, Kareem, Hakeem ect. is unfair considering the situation.

[MMKM]

A little off topic but an interesting little factoid;

I've heard people say 1000 times that Wilt dominated because there were no other tall centers in the league back then (aside from Russell), basically saying he was a giant for his time. I did a little research and in Wilt's era the average height for a center was 6'11. Last season the average height was 6'10. It turns out human beings haven't evolved a whole lot in 50 years despite people's misconceptions.