ISH All time top 25 Forwards voting. #13. Elgin Baylor vs Dirk Nowitzki.

[Kblaze8855]

Baylor got past Pippen in a vote that needed 4 recounts to confirm. Does dirk stop Elgin due to his recent playoff success?




11 time all star
10 time all NBA first team
Top 3 in MVP voting 4 times
Top 5 in scoring for 10 seasons in a row peaking at #2 to wilt twice
Holds NBA finals record for single game scoring(61 points)
Career 27/14/4 player with individual season highs of 38/20/5

vs



10 time all star
2007 NBa MVP
2011 NBA finals MVP
11 time all NBA(4 first 5 second)
Top 5 in scoring 2005 and 2009
Top 3 in FTs made in 2005 and 2010
Career 23/8/3 player with individual season highs of 26 points, 10 rebounds, and 3.5 assists.

For his quote I almost went with the comments his coach made but found something better...from Larry Bird:


On Dirk Nowitzki: "I can see a lot of the same things that he does that I did. We both were tall and able to shoot from outside. We rebound the ball pretty well. We

[Fatal9]

wow, how is Hondo ahead of all these guys.

[Harison]

Elgin was much more dominant as a player, Dirk has more accolades.

While many may find the comparison between Dirk and some of the elites bothersome...but it seems Bird doesnt. Thats saying something.

There is a difference with comparing someone (you can do that with any player, Kobe vs Jordan, etc), as long as fans understand limitations and context, and claiming that player is as good or better than some of the elites (Dirk vs Bird, etc).

[Kblaze8855]

Hondo? I suspect its the 8 rings(4-5 as a superstar), finals MVP, 29/9/8 stat lines in his prime, 13 all star games that could easily be 15, 11 all NBA teams, 8 all D teams, being the 5th highest scoring forward ever and being so highly regarded in his day he was voted the greatest Celtic ever ahead of Russell and Cousy. Probably has something to do with him being this high. He pretty much had Scottie Pippens career plus 2 rings and better numbers....and he won without his Jordan.

That said....hes not far from here.

[FF1]

lol @ some of the people that must be ahead of Dirk...

[FF1]

Dirk Nowitzki

MVP, Finals MVP and one of the clutchest players ever. Elgin might have had a better peak (in a different era.....) but Dirk has already had the better career.

btw.. if we're counting "Top 3 in MVP voting" lets do the same with Dirk. I know he's been top 3 at least 3 times, on top of winning it.

[Kblaze8855]

I believe he was second in 06 and third in 05.

[Locked_Up_Tonight]

So let me get this straight. Dirk is 18th on the all time list, but the 13th best forward.

Insidehoops at its finest.

[PTB Fan]

Elgin Baylor.

He was a better offensive player overall, was more rounded, rebounded better, was more dominant presence overall and had a much better peak than Dirk. He was arguably a better performer in the post season and finals as well.

Their accomplishments are comparable, but Dirk achieved more with winning a title which Elgin never did (although he was given a championship ring..). Plus Baylor was a better athlete as well and more devastating player too.

Neither were force defensively though. I understand the case for Dirk, but Elgin should win this.

[Fatal9]

People's understanding of "better offensive player" has been amazing to me in the last and now this thread.

Hondo? I suspect its the 8 rings(4-5 as a superstar), finals MVP, 29/9/8 stat lines in his prime, 13 all star games that could easily be 15, 11 all NBA teams, 8 all D teams, being the 5th highest scoring forward ever and being so highly regarded in his day he was voted the greatest Celtic ever ahead of Russell and Cousy. Probably has something to do with him being this high. He pretty much had Scottie Pippens career plus 2 rings and better numbers....and he won without his Jordan.

That said....hes not far from here.

I'll discuss him when he comes on the list, won't start a secondary discussion here...Pippen vs. Havlicek would have been a good debate though.

[PTB Fan]

People's understanding of "better offensive player" has been amazing to me in the last and now this thread.

I'll discuss him when he comes on the list, won't start a secondary discussion here...Pippen vs. Havlicek would have been a good debate though.

Who's the better offensive player in your opinion? I've got Baylor, but it isn't by big margins.

[Carbine]

I'll take Dirk.

[fos]

Dirk and this is my 1,000th post! Must be a sign that I'm right?

[Odinn]

I didn't get this. How can there are 11 forwards better than Baylor&Nowitzki?


In Deuce Bigalow's GOAT project; Nowitzki was #18 and Baylor was #20.

Larry Bird, Tim Duncan, Julius Erving, Charles Barkley, Karl Malone, Kevin Garnett are the forwards ranked above Baylor&Nowitzki. Bob Pettit was #22. LeBron and Havlicek didn't get their position yet. At maximum I can name 9 forwards arguably or non-arguably better than Baylor&Nowitzki. But Baylor vs. Nowitzki thread is making for 12th spot?

[Big164]

0 rings
Dead last on his team in fg%
Played with two best players of the era, 0 rings
West made an NBA finals w/o him
Team improved when he retired, won ring w/o him

Vs

Reigning NBA champion/ Finals MVP
Made near 400% 3p 500 fg% 900 ft%
Played with no other superstars to get ring
Single handedly turned a dead franchise of 90s into champs
Beat Kobe durant lebron wade to get ring

Dirk wins this.