Hakeem is not a top10 Player

[millwad]

Dickwad...



Another nonsensical post...

Chamberlain not "doing crap" in the playoffs in his 50 ppg season? He averaged 35 ppg and 27 rpg. Not only that, but he took what was the same basic last place roster he inherited when he joined that team, to a game seven, two-point loss against the 60-20 Celtics and their SEVEN HOFers. Not only that, but Chamberlain's teammates collectively shot .354 (yes .354) in the playoffs that season. Now you explain to me how that happened? BTW, in a game five, of a best-of-five series in the first round, all Chamberlain did was put up a 56-35 game.

As for Hakeem's post-season scoring edge...

A PRIME "scoring" Chamberlain had FOUR entire post-seasons of 33.2 ppg, 34.7 ppg, 35.0 ppg, and 37.0 ppg. Last time I checked, Hakeem had TWO (37.5 ppg and 33.0 ppg.)

Chamberlain also had THREE post-season series of 37 ppg, 37 ppg, and 38.6 ppg. And he had FOUR of 30+ against Russell alone, including one of 30 ppg and 31 rpg (which covered seven games BTW.)

Wilt had produced FOUR 50+ point games in the post-season. How many did Hakeem have?

Chamberlain AVERAGED 33 ppg, 27 rpg, and .510 shooting in his first SIX post-seasons...COMBINED! And, one can only wonder what those numbers would look like had his cast of clowns been a little better in his 62-63 season, in which he missed the playoffs, when he averaged 44.8 ppg on .528 shooting (in a league that shot .441...and BTW, his teammates collectively shot .412.)

How about these numbers? Wilt averaged 29.3 ppg, 26.6 rpg, 4.8 apg, .518, and probably blocked 7-8 bpg, in his first EIGHT post-seasons...COMBINED!

How many 30+ ppg, 25+ rpg post-seasons did Hakeem have? Chamberlain had THREE. How many 30+ ppg, 20 rpg post-seasons did Hakeem have? Chamberlain had FOUR. How many 25+ ppg, 25 rpg+ post-seasons did Hakeem have? Chamberlain had FIVE. How many 25+ ppg, 20+ rpg post-seasons did Hakeem have? Wilt had SIX. And how many 20+ ppg, 20+ rpg post-seasons did Hakeem have? Chamberlain had NINE.

How many 30 rpg post-seasons did Hakeem have? Wilt had one. How many 29+ rpg post-seasons did Hakeem have? Wilt had two. How many 27+ rpg post-seasons did Hakeem have? Wilt had THREE. How many 24.7+ rpg post-seasons did Hakeem have? Chamberlain had EIGHT. And how many 20+ rpg post-seasons did Hakeem have? Wilt had THIRTEEN...and in EVERY post-season in which he played....including a 22.5 rpg average over the course of 17 games in his LAST post-season.

How many post-seasons did Hakeem average 6.5 apg? Chamberlain had TWO, including one at 9.2 (in a post-season in which he had TWO "triple-double" playoff series.)

Furthermore, Chamberlain had a seven-game Finals, and playing on one leg, in which he averaged 23.2 ppg, 24.1 rpg, and shot .625...including an elimination game six of 45 points, on 20-27 shooting, with 27 rebounds. In the '67 first round playoffs, all Chamberlain did was average 28 ppg, 26.5 rpg, 11.0 apg, and shot .612. In the '64 Finals, and against Russell, Chamberlain averaged 29 ppg and 27 rpg.

How many championships did Wilt win and how many did Hakeem win?

The right answer is 2 *DING DING DING*

And Hakeem's boths runs were far greater than Wilt's. Wilt never even led a team in scoring in the playoffs when he finally won with the help of HOF:ers and all-stars. And not only didn't he lead, he was the 4th "best" scorer" of the '72 team and in '67, Hal Greer took over the scoring and averaged 27 ppg during the playoffs.

[tontoz]

Hakeem lost to Robert Parish in 1986 and then went 8 years without another finals appearance. All those fancy moves like the "dream walk" and he still averaged only 20 per game.

If I'm an NBA big man I'd emulate an actual scoring machine like Wilt Kareem or Shaq. Hakeem will only get you traveling violations

Who was the second best Rockets player during their title years?

[jlauber]

Jbieber, your stupidity is unbelievable, you have no sense for anything at all when it comes to basketball but stats. Loosing 8 times in the first round is not something odd when you play with players you do, heck, Wilt couldn't either carry his bad teams and he even had a 31-49 season and in all he had 3 seasons where he didn't made it through the first round and lets not forget that Hakeem had worse teammates by far during his career than what Wilt did and that Hakeem played 4 years longer than Wilt.

And still, you should learn the meaning of the word " DECISIVELY " because you are making a fool out of yourself. He got Kareem in the last game but in all he was outplayed by far, getting outscored by 23 points per game on better FG % while having more assists and also shooting freethrows twice as good as Wilt in the series is not equal to Wilt "schooling" Kareem, it's the other way around. And especially considering the fact that Kareem absolutely crushed Wilt in the regular season that year when he averaged 40 points per game on 51% shooting over 5 games on Wilt's ass. And no, Wilt was 4th in the MVP rankings, not third, why you gotta lie to make your crap sound better? This is not the first time you put up untrue numbers a la "Russell had a couple of seasons where he averaged 18-19 points" when in fact the guy never even averaged 19 points to start with.

Sure as hell I whine about Wilt being the 4th best scorer of his team when he finally won a second time. He wasn't even the best player of his own team, Jerry West ended up higher on the MVP-rankings and while Wilt won Finals MVP which was nice it's still not like he's the only player who won FMVP while not being considered the best player of his own team, a la Tony Parker and Maxwell.

In fact, he never led any of his teams in the playoffs when it came to scoring, being the 2nd best and 4th best scorer of the championteam is not equal to what Hakeem did, sorry, it's just not. Statpadding while loosing is not cool, Jbieber. Hakeem's runs were greater for sure.

I have DESTROYED every single feeble effort at ANY argument you can make for Hakeem being even a SHELL of a player that Wilt was...but I thought I would AGAIN point out your blatant LIES in the above post.

Chamberlain finished THIRD in the '72 MVP balloting, not FOURTH (you once again attempt to disparage his legacy.) Secondly, Wilt's TEAMs didn't make it thru the first round in ONE of his PLAYOFF seasons. If you are going to count his '63 season, when his putrid teammates were so bad that even the MONUMENTAL season that Wilt had was not enough to get them there...then we can add THREE more seasons to Hakeem's total of EIGHT first round spankings...now giving him a TOTAL of ELEVEN then in his career. Imagine that...18 seasons, and knocked out in the FIRST ROUND in ELEVEN of them.

"Stats-padding" while "loosing" (losing)? Yep, TWO seasons, in 14, which he did not play on a winning team. BUT, in one, all he did was LEAD the league in FIFTEEN of the entire total of 22 statistical categories, including WIN SHARES. He played 47.6 mpg, and SINGLE-HANDEDLY kept his team in nearly EVERY game (they only had a -2.1 ppg differential and lost 35 games by single digits.) Here was Wilt scoring 44.8 ppp, grabbing 24.3 rpg, and not only leading the league in FG%, but setting a then-record mark of .528. His 31.8 PER is THE all-time record. Oh, and BTW, he then took that same cast of clowns to a 48-32 record the very next year, and a trip to the Finals.

That takes care of ONE of his "loosing" seasons, but how about the other? Well, he was traded in mid-season, to a team that had been 34-46 the season before, and took them to a 40-40 record. THEN, he carried them to a 3-1 romp over the 48-32 Royals. THEN he carried them to a game seven, ONE-POINT loss against the 62-18 Celtics, at the PEAK of their DYNASTY. And in the process, all he did was average 30 ppg and 31 rpg in that seven game series...including a game seven of 30 points, on 12-15 shooting, with 32 rebounds.

As for the '72 WCF's...yes Chamberlain was considered as having DECISIVELY outplayed the 11 year younger Kareem (and doing so on a surgically repaired knee.) Kareem's .457 FG% was bad enough (in a year in which he shot .574), but it was a HORRIBLE .414 over the course of the last FOUR pivotal games of that series. And Wilt was knocking the "unblockable" sky-hook all over the gym in that series. We KNOW he had 15 blocks of Kareem's shots in just three of those games...and he probably had well over 20 in the entire series. And here again...that was a WAY PAST prime Chamberlain, and playing against a Kareem in his GREATEST statistical season. Even the year before, in what was arguably Wilt's WORST season, and covering 10 H2H games (five in the regular season, and five in the post-season), Wilt matched Kareem point-for-point, shot-for-shot, and rebound-for-rebound. My god, in Wilt's LAST season, the two went H2H in six regular season games, and while Kareem outscored Wilt per game, 29.5 to 11.0, Chamberlain outshot Jabbar by a mind-blowing .737 to .450 margin...which even included one game in which he outscored Kareem, 24-21, while outshooting him, 10-14 to 10-27. One can only wonder what a PRIME Chamberlain would have unloaded on Kareem?

And as for Wilt being the "second best" scorer in that '67 team. First of all, he was their LEADING scorer in the regular season. Secondly, he had their post-season HIGH game of 41 points. Thirdly, he was by FAR, their most CLUTCH scorer (putting up HUGE games in the clinching wins over Russell's and Thurmond's teams.) He also averaged 29.1 rpg and 9.2 apg, while outshooting Greer .579 to .429 in the post-season. Included in that post-season were a 28 ppg, 26.5 rpg, 11.0 apg, .612 series against the Royals; a 21.6 ppg, 32.0 rpg, 10.0 apg, and .556 series against Russell and the 60-21 Celtics; and a 17.5 ppg, 28.5 rpg, .560 Finals against Nate's Warriors. BTW, in addition to outscoring and outrebounding both Russell and Thurmond, he held them to .358 and .343 shooting respectively.

Once again...maybe you should take the time to RESEARCH before you make a complete FOOL out of yourself with your asinine posts.

Hakeem has NO CASE over Wilt...and as I have pointed out, he was barely a BORDERLINE Top-10 player (IF that.)

[jlauber]

How many championships did Wilt win and how many did Hakeem win?

The right answer is 2 *DING DING DING*

And Hakeem's boths runs were far greater than Wilt's. Wilt never even led a team in scoring in the playoffs when he finally won with the help of HOF:ers and all-stars. And not only didn't he lead, he was the 4th "best" scorer" of the '72 team and in '67, Hal Greer took over the scoring and averaged 27 ppg during the playoffs.

Yes they each had two rings. However, Wilt's came in 14 seasons, as compared to Hakeem's EIGHTEEN seasons. BUT, how about the fact that Chamberlain at least got his team's to SIX Finals, as compared to Hakeem's THREE. Or that Wilt took his team's to TWELVE Conference Finals, as compared to Hakeem's FOUR. Or that Wilt managed to get his team's past the first round in 11 of his 13 post-seasons, while Hakeem took his team down in flames in EIGHT of his fifteen post-seasons. AND, Chamberlain took FOUR teams to game seven's against the greatest Dynasty in major professional team sports, and lost them by scores of 2, 1, 4, and 2 points.

Here again...a MONUMENTAL difference...

[millwad]

I have DESTROYED every single feeble effort at ANY argument you can make for Hakeem being even a SHELL of a player that Wilt was...but I thought I would AGAIN point out your blatant LIES in the above post.

You haven't destroyed anything or anyone at all, the funny thing is that in the last discussion we had other posters even stated that you were the one getting destroyed.

And all you do is copy and paste. You single-handedly made Wilt unpopular on this site, you're not doing anyone a favour with your lunatic behaviour and obsession.

"Stats-padding" while "loosing" (losing)? Yep, TWO seasons, in 14, which he did not play on a winning team. BUT, in one, all he did was LEAD the league in FIFTEEN of the entire total of 22 statistical categories, including WIN SHARES. He played 47.6 mpg, and SINGLE-HANDEDLY kept his team in nearly EVERY game (they only had a -2.1 ppg differential and lost 35 games by single digits.) Here was Wilt scoring 44.8 ppp, grabbing 24.3 rpg, and not only leading the league in FG%, but setting a then-record mark of .528. His 31.8 PER is THE all-time record. Oh, and BTW, he then took that same cast of clowns to a 48-32 record the very next year, and a trip to the Finals.

And still only winning two titles while not even being the leading scorer of the team. All the spamming about his amazing stats doesn't help when he in fact lost.

As for the '72 WCF's...yes Chamberlain was considered as having outplayed the 11 year younger Kareem (and doing so on a surgically repaired knee.) Kareem's .457 FG% was bad enough (in a year in which he shot .574), but it was a HORRIBLE .414 over the course of the last FOUR pivotal games of that series. And Wilt was knocking the "unblockable" sky-hook all over the gym in that series. We KNOW he had 15 blocks of Kareem's shots in just three of those games...and he probably had well over 20 in the entire series. And here again...that was a WAY PAST prime Chamberlain, and playing against a Kareem in his GREATEST statistical season. Even the year before, in what was arguably Wilt's WORST season, and covering 10 H2H games (five in the regular season, and five in the post-season), Wilt matched Kareem point-for-point, shot-for-shot, and rebound-for-rebound. My god, in Wilt's LAST season, the two went H2H in six regular season games, and while Kareem outscored Wilt per game, 29.5 to 11.0, Chamberlain outshot Jabbar by a mind-blowing .737 to .450 margin...which even included one game in which he outscored Kareem, 24-21, while outshooting him, 10-14 to 10-27. One can only wonder what a PRIME Chamberlain would have unloaded on Kareem?

Still, you need to learn what " DECISIVELY" means. I have told you now a thousand times that it means that he had a better game in the last game of the series, what about the other games Kareem crushed him?

And again you bring up Kareem's FG% against Wilt in the playoffs of '72 but why is it that you always forget to mention the fact that he even shot better than Wilt during that series while averaging 23 points more per game, haha..

And as for Wilt being the "second best" scorer in that '67 team. First of all, he was their LEADING scorer in the regular season. Secondly, he had their post-season HIGH game of 41 points. Thirdly, he was by FAR, their most CLUTCH scorer (putting up HUGE games in the clinching wins over Russell's and Thurmond's teams.) He also averaged 29.1 rpg and 9.2 apg, while outshooting Greer .579 to .429 in the post-season. Included in that post-season were a 28 ppg, 26.5 rpg, 11.0 apg, .612 series against the Royals; a 21.6 ppg, 32.0 rpg, 10.0 apg, and .556 series against Russell and the 60-21 Celtics; and a 17.5 ppg, 28.5 rpg, .560 Finals against Nate's Warriors. BTW, in addition to outscoring and outrebounding both Russell and Thurmond, he held them to .358 and .343 shooting respectively.

Yeah, Wilt was always an amazing scorer in the regular season but he always dropped in the playoffs, the guy averaged 8 points less in the playoffs than the regular season as an average... Wow, did he outscore Russell? Damn, what an amazing accomplishment..

And a center is supposed to have better FG% than a guard, now you know that.

Once again...maybe you should take the time to RESEARCH before you make a complete FOOL out of yourself with your asinine posts.

Hakeem has NO CASE over Wilt...and as I have pointed out, he was barely a BORDERLINE Top-10 player (IF that.)

You always write about competition but it's a fact that Wilt only faced 2 of the top 10 center while Hakeem faced 6 of the 10 greatest centers ever. Hakeem won just as many titles as Wilt and his runs are definitely greater than Wilt's, no doubt. Now go and be Wilt's buttyboy and watch his stats from the '72 season where he was the fourth "best" scorer of the team while getting abused by Kareem.

[millwad]

Yes they each had two rings. However, Wilt's came in 14 seasons, as compared to Hakeem's EIGHTEEN seasons. BUT, how about the fact that Chamberlain at least got his team's to SIX Finals, as compared to Hakeem's THREE. Or that Wilt took his team's to TWELVE Conference Finals, as compared to Hakeem's FOUR. Or that Wilt managed to get his team's past the first round in 11 of his 13 post-seasons, while Hakeem took his team down in flames in EIGHT of his fifteen post-seasons. AND, Chamberlain took FOUR teams to game seven's against the greatest Dynasty in major professional team sports, and lost them by scores of 2, 1, 4, and 2 points.

Here again...a MONUMENTAL difference...

Haha, retarded argument.
Wilt retired for an obvious reason, that may have been the most stupid thing I've read. He was way beyond his prime when he retired. Hakeem should have retired earlier but him playing longer than Wilt is not an argument for him winning just as many titles as Wilt, while being the greater player during his runs.

Wilt played in a league with 8 teams and had to play less playoff series to reach the finals, he also played with better teammates.