Pippen has intangibles that you CANNOT COACH OR TEACH

[97 bulls]

Are you friggin kidding me??

Wade led Haslem, rookie Mario Chalmers, a Marion who only played half the season and missed the playoffs entirely, Jermaine '4 yrs past his prime' O'Neal and Michael 'shot jacking' Beasley to 43 wins and a game 7 loss against a much better/deeper Hawks team in the 1st round. (cook and Moon were playing 25 minutes a game for christ sake!!). He WAS the Miami Heat.

The Bulls in '95 weren't great - Pippen had them on pace for about 42 wins before MJ came back - but that '09 Heat team was a god damn disgrace, probably as bad as Kobe's '06 Laker clown fest. Give me Perdue, Kukoc, Harper and Armstrong (as well as Phil Jackson! Let's not forget about him) over Wade's cast any day.

Yakhouba Diawara. Go look him up.

Yakhouba Diawara? No need. Pippen had his equal starting the first 17 games of the season at power forward in larry krystowiak. Along with rookie Dickey Simpkins, and Corie Blount.

Pippen had the bulls at 34-30 when jordan came back. Thats a pace of roughly 44 wins right with Wade. Even better when you consider competiton. The fact is the east was just terrible in 09.

Wades teammates were better too. Oneal avg 13/5 with two blocks and could score down low and play defense. Haslem avg 10/8 on 50%. Youd take perdue and co. over Oneal and Haslem? Id agree Kukoc waas better than Beasley but beasly still was solid. Chalmers and Armstrong were basically the same player. Even if Chalmers was a rookie. And you cant discount the 42 games Marion played in. Which was a bigger contribution than ron harper who couldnt pick up the triangle and thus rarely played.

And lets not gloss over how bad the east teams were in 09 compared to 95. The east had five teams over 500 in 09. There were eight teams that were above 500 in 95.

You claim Wade was the Heat? Wade led the league in scoring, Pippen led the league in defensive rating and steals. But Pippen also led his team in every major category. Cant say that about Wade. Pippen ran the Bulls offense. He was there best man defender, the best full court press defender, help defenser. One of the Bulls top 3pt shooters, best low post scorer. Thats what you call being the team legitimately.

And thats why i choose Pippen over Wade. Put them in the same situation and Pippen fairs better.

[bwink23]

No. He was a franchise player that took a lesser role for the good of the team.

Didn't you see Scottie's commercial ?? He said he didn't even think he belonged on the Olympic team....

Franchise players are players brought in to carry a team to a championship...the CENTERPIECE of a championship squad....Scottie NEVER, EVER showed he could be that guy, EVER.


Now channel your inner Pippen homer....

[97 bulls]

Now this, I kinda disagree with. Pip saw first hand how frustrating it can be, when all eyes are on you to "lead", game after game. The first thing reporters (and fans) ask is "what could the STAR PLAYER have done differently" after a loss (look how LBJ gets thrown under the bus after every game). After ONE SEASON, Pip was already fed up with that sh!t.


Now, if he's on a team with another Star player (like say, a Westbrook) to take pressure off of him every other game, then that's a different story.

Pippen in my opinion felt unappreciated. I mean, he alone was keeping the Bulls afloat. And he was a franchise player. Honestly, how many players are or were capable of being top 3pt in the dpoy and mvp? The only ones i can think of off the top are Wilt, Jordan, Duncan, Olajuwan, and James along with Pip. And unlike the others, who had a whole career to achieve their status 10+ years, Pippen had 1 1/2 years.

How many players can lead bad teams to the playoffs? Go back and look at what Mchale and Worthy did without the main guys from their dynasties. They crashed and burned. Wade after Shaq left? Gave his team to James.

What more do you expect out of a franchise player? Is the only way to qualify as a franchise player is to lead your team to a championship?

[97 bulls]

Didn't you see Scottie's commercial ?? He said he didn't even think he belonged on the Olympic team....

Franchise players are players brought in to carry a team to a championship...the CENTERPIECE of a championship squad....Scottie NEVER, EVER showed he could be that guy, EVER.


Now channel your inner Pippen homer....

That was in 92. There were more accomplished players that deserved to go. Notice he said at the time.

And what in **** are you taking about? What constitutes a franchise player? Did he do what was expected of him in 94 and 95?

[Nevaeh]

Pippen in my opinion felt unappreciated. I mean, he alone was keeping the Bulls afloat. And he was a franchise player. Honestly, how many players are or were capable of being top 3pt in the dpoy and mvp? The only ones i can think of off the top are Wilt, Jordan, Duncan, Olajuwan, and James along with Pip. And unlike the others, who had a whole career to achieve their status 10+ years, Pippen had 1 1/2 years.

How many players can lead bad teams to the playoffs? Go back and look at what Mchale and Worthy did without the main guys from their dynasties. They crashed and burned. Wade after Shaq left? Gave his team to James.

What more do you expect out of a franchise player? Is the only way to qualify as a franchise player is to lead your team to a championship?

That's the Key though. He only had 1 1/2 years, and by then, he was already sick of it (being "Da Man). Now, try being the Man for 3 straight years, 5 straight years, 7 straight years, dealing with failure after failure. I'm not knocking Pip but, realistically, he was in the best position for someone with his personality and ability.

[unbreakable]

pippen led the dream team in ASSISTS and had a much better fg% than jordan.. in fact jordan had the worst fg% on the dream team

[BlackVVaves]

Didn't you see Scottie's commercial ?? He said he didn't even think he belonged on the Olympic team....

Franchise players are players brought in to carry a team to a championship...the CENTERPIECE of a championship squad....Scottie NEVER, EVER showed he could be that guy, EVER.


Now channel your inner Pippen homer....

Talk about taking statements out of context

[97 bulls]

That's the Key though. He only had 1 1/2 years, and by then, he was already sick of it (being "Da Man). Now, try being the Man for 3 straight years, 5 straight years, 7 straight years, dealing with failure after failure. I'm not knocking Pip but, realistically, he was in the best position for someone with his personality and ability.

Where are you getting this from? He wasnt frustrated because he no longerlonger wanted to be the man, he was frustrated cuz he was underpaid (though it was partially his fault), and he was underappreciated. The team was clearly going nowhere and he felt he wasnt getting help. His name was constantly brought up in trade talk. I never once heard him in an interview say he no longer wanted to be the leader of a team. Put yourself in his shoes. You go out, lead youre team in everything, run the offnse and anchor the efense and have the pressure of scoring, and your reward is you hear your name in trade talks

Whats the difference between what pip did and what jordan did after they lost to the pistons in 90? He went off on everybody, even his father who was trying to calm him down.

How bout kobe? He demaded a trade when things werent going his way?

And he had one of the biggest if not the biggest shoes to feel the when jordan left. How many great players have turned down golden opportunities with the bulls? Hill? Tmac? James?

[Nevaeh]

Where are you getting this from? He wasnt frustrated because he no longerlonger wanted to be the man, he was frustrated cuz he was underpaid (though it was partially his fault), and he was underappreciated. The team was clearly going nowhere and he felt he wasnt getting help. His name was constantly brought up in trade talk. I never once heard him in an interview say he no longer wanted to be the leader of a team. Put yourself in his shoes. You go out, lead youre team in everything, run the offnse and anchor the efense and have the pressure of scoring, and your reward is you hear your name in trade talks

Whats the difference between what pip did and what jordan did after they lost to the pistons in 90? He went off on everybody, even his father who was trying to calm him down.

How bout kobe? He demaded a trade when things werent going his way?

And he had one of the biggest if not the biggest shoes to feel the when jordan left. How many great players have turned down golden opportunities with the bulls? Hill? Tmac? James?

Yeah, he felt underpaid after signing that long contract (think it was from 91-98), but don't act like he was innocent either, telling the media how he "wanted to be traded" or how he "think this may be his last year as a Bull", because he didn't like the terms of the contract.

What he basically did was improve a lot AFTER he had signed the contract, and was banking on a renegotiation with the Bulls. Of course, anyone who's read about them knew that Bulls management would try and nickle and dime any player they had, may sign or may re-sign.

Pip was underpaid long before he became "da man", but he was also under contract at the time. I remember what he was going through back then, and it was basically the pressure of being in "the hot seat". Pip was a sometimes moody player, who enjoyed the role of "Right Hand Man" more, and he proved it throughout his career.

You wanted him to have a career as "the Man" because you like him as a player. Unfortunately (or maybe even fortunately) it didn't work out that way.

[RoseCity07]

Jordan definitely pushed Pippen and worked a ton with him to help Scottie Develop his game. Read Playing For Keeps. You'll learn so much about what went on with the Bulls during the Jordan era.

[97 bulls]

Yeah, he felt underpaid after signing that long contract (think it was from 91-98), but don't act like he was innocent either, telling the media how he "wanted to be traded" or how he "think this may be his last year as a Bull", because he didn't like the terms of the contract.

What he basically did was improve a lot AFTER he had signed the contract, and was banking on a renegotiation with the Bulls. Of course, anyone who's read about them knew that Bulls management would try and nickle and dime any player they had, may sign or may re-sign.

Pip was underpaid long before he became "da man", but he was also under contract at the time. I remember what he was going through back then, and it was basically the pressure of being in "the hot seat". Pip was a sometimes moody player, who enjoyed the role of "Right Hand Man" more, and he proved it throughout his career.

You wanted him to have a career as "the Man" because you like him as a player. Unfortunately (or maybe even fortunately) it didn't work out that way.

Ok, but that doesnt mean he didnt want to be the man. He wanted to be paid. I admit a portion of it was his fault. But it doesnt mean or say anything about his abilities on the court. Again i never heard him say id rather play second fiddle or i dont want the big shot or i dont want to be the man. He didnt want to be traded because of not wanting to be the man, he wante to be traded cuz he felt disrespected.

I mean, the bulls would lose a game, pippen would drop 25/9/7/3/2 be the best defender and anchor the defense and run the offense. And people like you would feel he didnt do enough. It was all his fault. Id be pissed too. But that doesnt mean he didnt want to be the man.

The problem as i see it honestly? Is that people like you compare him to Michael Jordan. And i think we all agree he was never on jordans level.

[G-train]

[QUOTE]----------------------------------------------------------
http://www.nba.com/bulls/news/ask-sa...ag-033012.html

Quote:
Sam: I remember Jordan helping Pippen with this. In Pippen

[G-train]

Pippen was a brilliant player, but by his own admission and several other accounts benefitted hugely from Jordan's teaching, and would not have become the player he was. Probably still would have been good though.
Common sense really.

[Nevaeh]

Ok, but that doesnt mean he didnt want to be the man. He wanted to be paid. I admit a portion of it was his fault. But it doesnt mean or say anything about his abilities on the court. Again i never heard him say id rather play second fiddle or i dont want the big shot or i dont want to be the man. He didnt want to be traded because of not wanting to be the man, he wante to be traded cuz he felt disrespected.

I mean, the bulls would lose a game, pippen would drop 25/9/7/3/2 be the best defender and anchor the defense and run the offense. And people like you would feel he didnt do enough. It was all his fault. Id be pissed too. But that doesnt mean he didnt want to be the man.

The problem as i see it honestly? Is that people like you compare him to Michael Jordan. And i think we all agree he was never on jordans level.

Dude, how often does Lebron get slammed, with stat lines exactly like that or better? Jordan's been recently getting slammed for games where he was the only one showing up to play, back in the 80s.


No one's expecting Pip to be Jordan. What YOU'RE expecting is for him to be treated on the level of a FRANCHISE player. Unfortunately his sample size is too small for him to be fully counted as one.

[97 bulls]

Pippen was a brilliant player, but by his own admission and several other accounts benefitted hugely from Jordan's teaching, and would not have become the player he was. Probably still would have been good though.
Common sense really.

What accounts? The relationship between jordan and pippen is no different than anyother teammate relationship. Its well documented that they helped each other in practice. Did jordan help pippen become a better player? Sure. Did he make pippen? No.
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