Moses Malones place in history and the seductive power of highlights.

[Kblaze8855]

https://youtu.be/0dyw-dpenlA


^

Brief video for those for whom hes just a name. Note...I said video. Not highlight video...because Moses Malone didnt really have any. Which I will go into shortly....



Moses was odd in a lot of ways. A bigtime scorer who wasnt really that good a scorer skills wise. He retired 3rd or so all time in scoring and is currently 9th. Godly rebounder but only led in defensive rebounds twice despite leading the NBA 7 times. He just couldnt be kept off the offensive boards. He used rebounding to score. Hes remembered for tapping in a lot of his own misses but if you watch him he was amazingly active on anyones shots. He would just go get it like a pass. Instincts, quickness, and positioning off the charts. And he was maybe the GOAT far as going back up with it. From any angle.

Perhaps the least skilled bigman to ever demand double and triple teams. One guy couldnt stop him just off the physicality. When he was on the Rockets playing with(relative) bums teams would just collapse all over him on the catch but hed still score 30:








He was acknowledged as the best player in a league that had Kareem, Bird, Doc, and Magic in it as he just drug teams to success. He beat showtime twice. Once with a superteam in Philly and once with his sidekick a near washed up 5'9'' Calvin Murphy. He put up somethng like 28/18 beating LA in 81 with a .500 team. His first 8 years in the playoffs?

23/18
19/17
25/21(very short series)
26/14
27/15
24/17
26/16
21/14




Outplayed Kareem twice in series. Had several 50 point games despite not being that skilled(though he was a better shooter than you probably think).

Won 3 MVPS two of them on bad teams. They went to the finals with him and won 14 games when he left.

When he got to Philly he got more love but he knew what it was:

The only reason people are saying I'm the number-one player is because I'm with the number-one team.

Said with a bit of resentment because some were hesitant to give him #1 status on the Rockets when hed lose to better teams. But a huge number of people gave it to him even then. In 83 it wouldnt have been much of a question. But you can find reputable people having him as the best in the league when he was 23 putting up 25/18 a game.

But.

40 years later?


All his peers are better. Magic. KAreem. Bird. Doc.

Hes the odd man out.

I strongly suspect its because he played like a deranged hobo trying to get a roster spot through sheer force of will.

The others were flashy. Cant even call it a ring argument. Doc only has 1 and Moses won it for him.

Moses never had another star in his prime. Bird had Mchale and Parish for their entire primes. Magic had Kareem early and all of Worthy. Kareem had Magic and Worthy. Doc didnt have one...but then he got Moses.

The closest Moses got to a prime star was aging Doc who while still spectacular put up 18ppg on their title run. He wasnt the real Doctor J.

If Moses got to Philly in 1977 right out of the ABA he and Doc probably have the status of Magic and Kareem but as it happened.....he got there as Doc ended and Barkley came on as Moses himself got old and shipped out.

He got a perfect storm to come out underrated. Only 1 ring because his teams sucked and his Philly team fell off as he got there. Crazy numbers in the one area people dont care about(rebounds). Absolutely no highlight to speak of. The flashiest play of his career would barely make a Demarcus Cousins best of March highlight reel.

But theres something to be said about just working so hard they cant keep you from hanging 30/24 on them right?

Hes gotta do it pretty to get talked about in the same breathe as guys who would have...at the time...acknowledged he was better than them?

How much must that suck? You go straight up bully a team for 42/26 and like 3 people on that team are more famous than you because there isnt a kid alive who wants to play like you.


Is there a spot in your top....whatever...for a guy who lived off heart and had the numbers to back it up? Moses in you top 15? 20? What?

Whats 3 MVPs, 27000 points, the most rebounds of anyone who didnt play in the 60s, 13 all star selection, a finals MVP, and video game numbers worth to you when they compiled all of that off sheer force of will?

We shitting on effort as a primary attribute? Cant be elite without the highlights? What?

[Prometheus]

Board man gets paid.

[SouBeachTalents]

He had one of the most accomplished seasons in history in 1983

MVP
65 wins
1st Team All-NBA
1st Team All-Defense
FMVP
12-1 postseason
Swept the Magic/Kareem Lakers in the Finals

[NBAGOAT]

Top 20. Defense is pretty important for a big and most don

[Kblaze8855]

I don

[LAmbruh]

I have him ranked 11th, right infront of Kobe

[tpols]

I don't see Hakeems case over him at all.

[NBAGOAT]

I don’t think many people at the time would have listened to a Gervin>Moses argument despite Gervin being considered much better than people looking back assume he was. That team record way of looking at it could be used in a lot of comparisons people wouldn’t really make. Jordan Dominique and Barkley all led subpar teams to about the same number of wins but that doesn’t mean Jordan was on the same level as the other two.

There is just a rough limit to what one player can do no matter how good he is and there is a point of diminishing returns with that. And absolute shit line up with the right chemistry and an all star could win in the upper 40s but you could give them the greatest player ever and only win 50.

There’s a cap that makes a lot of great player bad team combos come out on basically the same level.

I kind of agree but once in awhile, you see a guy carry a mediocre team to 55 wins and a semi relevant playoff run. There’s also different lvls of subpar. Dominique’s 80s teams are mediocre, mjs early ones are just bad

[iamgine]

I think the thing that counted against him the most is in Philly, he only won 1 title. Clearly they had enough talent to win a few before Moses got too old. Or at least go to the finals. Instead they lost in the 1st round. And the semis.

But most people still puts him top 15-20. That's not nothing.

[sdot_thadon]

Fo, Fo, Fo, Fo

I remember as a kid he was regarded as a top 10 guy, only to be pushed out by the 2000s era guys. I suppose his aesthetics didn't age well for the generation that followed after he retired. Shit the same happend for Doc, Oscar, and West over time.

[SouBeachTalents]

Fo, Fo, Fo, Fo

I remember as a kid he was regarded as a top 10 guy, only to be pushed out by the 2000s era guys. I suppose his aesthetics didn't age well for the generation that followed after he retired. Shit the same happend for Doc, Oscar, and West over time.

Oscar & West had the misfortune of going up against the Russell Celtics, otherwise they'd potentially have a lot more MVP's & titles. While Dr. J didn't get to the NBA until 26/27, and while individually playing well, came up short in the Finals 3 times before Moses arrived.

Moses has the 3 MVP's, but all those dudes you mentioned just didn't get enough individual or team accolades to stay in the top 10, only having 1 MVP or title/FMVP each

[sdot_thadon]

Oscar & West had the misfortune of going up against the Russell Celtics, otherwise they'd potentially have a lot more MVP's & titles. While Dr. J didn't get to the NBA until 26/27, and while individually playing well, came up short in the Finals 3 times before Moses arrived.

Moses has the 3 MVP's, but all those dudes you mentioned just didn't get enough individual or team accolades to stay in the top 10, only having 1 MVP or title/FMVP each

Right, the crop of guys that entered the top 10 from the 2000s all won more chips. But it also kind of shows the shift towards ring counting becuase I'm not sure Russell was ever more highly regarded than he is now aside from the 60s.

[warriorfan]

He was the GOAT garbage man cleaning up everything around the basket. He outworked everyone on a nightly basis. He

[GimmeThat]

one thing that he suffered mostly from was the early stage of basketball being Russell versus Wilt, thus it was a 6'9" undersized C against the 'Goliath'

his lack of playoff success most likely resulted in teammates watching him while Malone was fighting for rebounds. hence players who didn't play bigger than their size.

the concept is: if I have my big man down low grabbing a rebound, isn't that by default the best 2nd offensive possession without any additional set ups? the answer being: foul troubles, quarters, match ups, defensive set ups by moving players out of their position

but sure, the agenda is once again, just have someone like Lebron transition to the 1 position and problem solved. but what's the point of moving a player out of their position if the cost is players are no longer getting screened off the ball.

[Round Mound]

Big Moses The GOAT Offensive Rebounder!