Ending the Kobe is clutch myth

[RazorBaLade]

I don't understand what this stat is without context of how other players do in the clutch on similar amounts.

[DMAVS41]

Please

Haters like you say the same tired crap over and over and over and over. Yet people who know the game way better than you fools ALWAYS disagree....why is that? Oh yeah...that's right, it's cuz of popularity.

So...we're right back to haters like you supposedly knowing more than people in the NBA. Hate to be the one to tell you this. But REAL NBA fans would listen to the facts and opinions of players/coaches/GM's/analysts, over those of some nobody on the internet. So, just keep telling yourself that.

Do you really not know the difference between a fact and an opinion or perception.

I can post all the data and make no claims at all....that doesn't make me a hater. You seem to have a problem with the actual data, you know, the facts. And that is your problem.

Would you call me a "hater" if I posted all the data if it supported Kobe as the best clutch player? Of course not. So why would the opposite be true?

By all means, post actual data/evidence/facts that prove Kobe is as good as his rep in the clutch.

I'd love to see it and I wouldn't disregard anything. Why? Because I'm not a biased ****ing moron like you.

[28renyoy]

The bold has to actually be good though. Especially the regular season game winners with less than 5 seconds left. That is way above league average....

Dirk 33-83 39.3% but he is 19-36 52.6% these past 4 years

Carmelo 34-76 44.7%

Pierce 26-102 25.5%

LeBron 36-95 37.9%(prepares for shit storm)

[DMAVS41]

I don't understand what this stat is without context of how other players do in the clutch on similar amounts.

Bingo. See below though with Dirk and Melo for starters....significantly better.

[DMAVS41]

Dirk 33-83 39.3% but he is 19-36 52.6% these past 4 years

Carmelo 34-76 44.7%

Pierce 26-102 25.5%

LeBron 36-95 37.9%

I'm assuming that is the 24 seconds or less criteria. Correct?

[RazorBaLade]

Dirk 33-83 39.3% but he is 19-36 52.6% these past 4 years

Carmelo 34-76 44.7%

Pierce 26-102 25.5%

LeBron 36-95 37.9%(prepares for shit storm)

Well if kobe isn't clutch at 40% on *that* volume then honestly I don't know what clutch even means anymore. Is anyone clutch then? Assuming this is 4th quarter, 5 min or less within 5 pts, career.

[28renyoy]

Well if kobe isn't clutch at 40% on *that* volume then honestly I don't know what clutch even means anymore. Is anyone clutch then? Assuming this is 4th quarter, 5 min or less, career.

Uh Kobe is at 31.3%, that was shots with 24 seconds or left in +2 to -3 point games

And as for LeBron, he hasn't really changed much..he just isn't given opportunities, more than likely due to his preference to defer to Wade in crunch time

31-81 38.2% 2003-2010

5-14 35.6% 2010-2012

[DMAVS41]

Well if kobe isn't clutch at 40% on *that* volume then honestly I don't know what clutch even means anymore. Is anyone clutch then? Assuming this is 4th quarter, 5 min or less within 5 pts, career.

That is game winners. Kobe is at 31%. That is significantly worse than Dirk and Melo.

[LakersReign]

I don't understand what this stat is without context of how other players do in the clutch on similar amounts.

They CAN'T provide context cuz it will simply destroy their so called argument. Simple as that.

[RazorBaLade]

Uh Kobe is at 31.3%, that was shots with 24 seconds or left in +2 to -3 point games

And as for LeBron, he hasn't really changed much..he just isn't given opportunities, more than likely due to his preference to defer to Wade in crunch time

31-81 38.2% 2003-2010

5-14 35.6% 2010-2012

There is no stat in the OP that says 24 sec or left down up 2/3. But either way I think its interesting how in that mini list the more volume the lesser percentage it is.

Either way, I don't see how anything disproves he's clutch.. Maybe hes not as great as some may be led to believe, since no one really remembers the misses but that holds true for all players.. Considering his volume, hes gotta be in the t5 all time in the clutch. I dont see how the numbers disprove that. Maybe t3 depending on how you value his ability to make retarded hard shots.

Also I believe lebrons is deceiving because as you said, he doesnt get to shoot that many and also most of his criticisms are usually for the ones he doesn't take more so than the ones he does.. No one number is going to paint the full picture for anyone

[DMAVS41]

There is no stat in the OP that says 24 sec or left down up 2/3. But either way I think its interesting how in that mini list the more volume the lesser percentage it is.

Either way, I don't see how anything disproves he's clutch.. Maybe hes not as great as some may be led to believe, since no one really remembers the misses but that holds true for all players.. Considering his volume, hes gotta be in the t5 all time in the clutch. I dont see how the numbers disprove that. Maybe t3 depending on how you value his ability to make retarded hard shots.

Also I believe lebrons is deceiving because as you said, most of his criticisms are usually for the ones he doesn't take more so than the ones he does.. No one number is going to paint the full picture for anyone

He added that per my request because I thought 5 seconds or less was too narrow. The accepted criteria for game winners is better.

Bingo to the bold.

Top 5 clutch all time? No, but really good in the clutch? Yes.

[tpols]

Eh.. Kobe has been the 5 minutes and under crunch time ppg leader for like 7 or 8 seasons.. and hes almost always been in the top 3 or 5. He's never afraid of the moment and is probably the best closer of the 2000-2010 decade. Clutch reputation is the truth.

[DMAVS41]

Eh.. Kobe has been the 5 minutes and under crunch time ppg leader for like 7 or 8 seasons.. and hes almost always been in the top 3 or 5. He's never afraid of the moment and is probably the best closer of the 2000-2010 decade. Clutch reputation is the truth.

He takes a lot of shots though...and his teams have not performed that well in terms of wins or losses either.

Well, I should say not elite. Dirk's teams, Paul's teams, Lebron's teams (cleveland), and Duncan's teams have won more close games.

Kobe led teams also drop dramatically in terms of offensive efficiency late in close games as well.

Like I said. Good clutch player? Yes...of course. As good as his rep? Of course not.

[RazorBaLade]

He takes a lot of shots though...and his teams have not performed that well in terms of wins or losses either.

Well, I should say not elite. Dirk's teams, Paul's teams, Lebron's teams (cleveland), and Duncan's teams have won more close games.

Kobe led teams also drop dramatically in terms of offensive efficiency late in close games as well.

Like I said. Good clutch player? Yes...of course. As good as his rep? Of course not.

You know whats interesting about that though? I heard on the radio a while ago, kobe's teams are INSANE in OT. I think it was like 22-5 the last 27 games. Pretty incredible. NO idea what changes from last few min to OT...

[DMAVS41]

You know whats interesting about that though? I heard on the radio a while ago, kobe's teams are INSANE in OT. I think it was like 22-5 the last 27 games. Pretty incredible.

That is great. The last time I saw the study done, the Lakers went from first to like 12th in offensive efficiency and weren't in the top 5 in terms of record in close games.

If that has changed. So be it.

But I'm not arguing against Kobe being clutch. I think people often confuse the two. You can still be really good while not being the best or by far the best like most people claim.

Lebron vs Kobe in the clutch is actually a legit debate, but think about the kind of reactions most people like you give when that is mentioned. Just kind of funny...