Paul Pierce: Most undeserving Finals MVP ever?

[PistonsFan#21]

Jerry West the year he won Finals MVP even though his team lost

[OldSkoolball#52]

For some reason people always have an obsession with pecking orders and ranks, and Ray definitely got the Chris Bosh treatment in Boston. No matter how important his contribution, he was pigeon holed into the marginalized "third banana" role, moreso based on perception than anything else.

This is what the league wants tho, debate over individual players. Its good for promotion. Thats why they give out silly awards like Finals MVP. Shit reminds me of a kids bball camp. "Most Improved Camper!" "Best dribbler!" "Best hustle!"

But they know the fans eat it up.

[TrueRob]

It seems like Finals MVP is more like Playoffs MVP. Pierce had some very memorable performances during their 2008 playoff run, like game 7 vs. Cleveland.

[bdreason]

KG was the Finals MVP.


And Duncan should have been the MVP over Parker.


Apparently defense isn't taken into consideration when deciding Finals MVP.

[livingby3's]

Forgot which year was it, but I rmb Ray got robbed for a all star mvp as well. not sure why but he has always been underrated by league standard

[CJ Mustard]

It seems like Finals MVP is more like Playoffs MVP. Pierce had some very memorable performances during their 2008 playoff run, like game 7 vs. Cleveland.

Then KG would have gotten it, he was their best player throughout the Playoffs by far.

[livinglegend]

It seems like Finals MVP is more like Playoffs MVP. Pierce had some very memorable performances during their 2008 playoff run, like game 7 vs. Cleveland.

Well, as the name suggest it, it should be given for the performance during the finals, not the whole playoffs. Therefore, Ray Allen deserved that award more than Pierce.

[Harison]

Finals stats:

Garnett 18.2/13.0/3.0/1.7/1.0, 42.9% FG
Pierce 21.8/4.5/6.3/1.2/0.3, 43.2% FG
Ray 20.3/5.0/2.5/1.3/0.7, 50.7% FG

1. Garnett was the sole focus of Lakers defense (double-tripple defenders), same as Kobe for the Celtics. Thats why KG numbers and efficiency dropped comparing to total Playoffs stats. Wide open Pierce and Ray had a field day, with Ray having a very efficient series.

What happened in '10 Finals when Pierce with Ray did face defense (single coverage)? They were terrible, and Ray was erased by much shorter Fisher.

2. Celtics won because of their defense, not offense. Who was anchoring that? Certainly not Ray or Pierce, who were never known for their defense before KG put some sense into them. When next season KG got injured, Celtics D became terrible even though they still had Thibodeau.

3. KG was BY FAR the best closer in the 4th in '08 Playoffs. Which is quite impressive with Ray and Pierce on the team.

KG was the Celtics' leading scorer in all pivotal games where the series was tied and the winner would take the series lead: KG 22.6 ppg, Pierce 20.5 ppg in 10 such games (this includes, by the way, Pierce’s game 7 explosion against Cleveland. In the other 9 such games, KG averaged 23.7 ppg and Pierce 18.2 ppg).

KG was the Celtics' leading scorer in the 4th quarter of the playoffs (128 points on 53% FG vs. Pierce's 103 points on 36% FG).

KG was the Celtics' leading scorer in the 4th quarter of the 12 games in the playoffs decided by 7 points or less (i.e. close games): KG 66 points/49% FG, Pierce 54 points/31% FG.

KG was by-far the Celtics' leading 4th quarter scorer in the REALLY close games (i.e. 3 games decided by 4 points or less): KG 22 points/50% FG, Pierce 3 points/20% FG.

Bottom line: KG had better overall statline even when facing full attention of Lakers defense. Celtics won because of KG anchoring the defense. KG was the best closer too.

Therefore how can anyone pick Ray or Pierce over Garnett? Duncan was similarly robbed FMVP by Parker, but even Parker had a better case over Duncan than Ray/Pierce over KG.

[fpliii]

It was pretty bad. Not sure about worst though, I'd have to think about it.

[CJ Mustard]

Finals stats:

Garnett 18.2/13.0/3.0/1.7/1.0, 42.9% FG
Pierce 21.8/4.5/6.3/1.2/0.3, 43.2% FG
Ray 20.3/5.0/2.5/1.3/0.7, 50.7% FG

1. Garnett was the sole focus of Lakers defense (double-tripple defenders), same as Kobe for the Celtics. Thats why KG numbers and efficiency dropped comparing to total Playoffs stats. Wide open Pierce and Ray had a field day, with Ray having a very efficient series.

What happened in '10 when Pierce with Ray did face defense (single coverage)? They were terrible, and Ray was erased by much shorter Fisher.

2. Celtics won because of their defense, not offense. Who was anchoring that? Certainly not Ray or Pierce, who were never known for their defense before KG put some sense into them. When next season KG got injured, Celtics D became terrible even though they still had Thibodeau.

3. KG was BY FAR the best closer in the 4th in '08 Playoffs. Which is quite impressive with Ray and Pierce on the team.

KG was the Celtics' leading scorer in all pivotal games where the series was tied and the winner would take the series lead: KG 22.6 ppg, Pierce 20.5 ppg in 10 such games (this includes, by the way, Pierce’s game 7 explosion against Cleveland. In the other 9 such games, KG averaged 23.7 ppg and Pierce 18.2 ppg).

KG was the Celtics' leading scorer in the 4th quarter of the playoffs (128 points on 53% FG vs. Pierce's 103 points on 36% FG).

KG was the Celtics' leading scorer in the 4th quarter of the 12 games in the playoffs decided by 7 points or less (i.e. close games): KG 66 points/49% FG, Pierce 54 points/31% FG.

KG was by-far the Celtics' leading 4th quarter scorer in the REALLY close games (i.e. 3 games decided by 4 points or less): KG 22 points/50% FG, Pierce 3 points/20% FG.

Bottom line: KG had better overall statline even when facing full attention of Lakers defense. Celtics won because of KG anchoring the defense. KG was the best closer too.

Therefore how can anyone pick Ray or Pierce over Garnett? Duncan was similarly robbed FMVP by Parker, but even Parker had a better case over Duncan than Ray/Pierce over KG.

It's a Finals MVP though. KG was obviously the best player throughout the Playoffs, but Ray performed the best in the Finals. Garnett is one of my favorite players, but shooting that low from the field as a big man is just inexcusable.

The fact that he was the main focus of the defense isn't an excuse, every star big man is the main focus of the opposing defense. Yet guys like Shaq, Duncan, Hakeem, etc have had great Finals performances on BOTH ends and earned Finals MVP's for it. 18 on 42% for a big isn't Finals MVP worthy, his defense was great though.

[KyleKong]

I see it as the same as for Billups. Better player and team leader in the Finals, but not throughout the playoffs.

[Bigsmoke]

Ray impacted the Finals more

-Held Kobe to 9-26 shooting in Game 1 being the primary defender on him. Didn't get carried off in a wheelchair.
-While Paul Pierce threw up a stinker of a Game 3 (6 points on 2-14 shooting). Ray was the only one keeping them in the game (25/5/2 on 8/13, 5/7 from three)
- Ray was the primary defender of Kobe in the first half of game 4 and held him scoreless. Pierce guarded Kobe in the second half and he scored 17 points in the second half. So much for playing great defense on Kobe when you don't even acknowledge that they were sharing duties and Ray did the better job this game while also shooting better than Pierce and grabbing 5 more boards although Pierce had more assists.
-Pierce did carry the team in Game 5, but don't forget Pierce got stripped by Kobe in a clutch situation. Pierce kept them in that game, but also lost it at the end. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UHYE8lf0QEw)
-And in the clinching Game 6, it was obvious it was Ray's night. He tied the record for most three point makes in a single NBA Finals game with 7. 26 points, 4 boards, 2 assists. Top that off with 3 steals and only 1 turnover.
-Did I mention he set the (at the time) NBA Finals Record for most three pointers made in a series with 21 (3 higher than the previous record).

Actually, the Celtics were doubling Kobe in game 4 which lead to the Lakers getting that big ass lead in the first place. They switch and put Pierce on Kobe and Kobe didn't get the easy passes from the double teams. Pierce numbers would have been better if it wasnt for game 3

[Harison]

It's a Finals MVP though. KG was obviously the best player throughout the Playoffs, but Ray performed the best in the Finals.

Ray scored the best (while wide open), but thats not the same as the best Finals performance, nor scoring should be the sole determination of The Most Valuable Player.

Recent examples, Danny Green was killing Heat from 3PT (when he was open), does it make him the Most Valuable Player? Open Jason Terry was killing Heat before that, was he more valuable than superstars on the court?

Scoring is just one aspect of the game, and situation when/how they score, matters too.

Its completely different when superstar gets swarmed with defense (KG, Kobe), and when other players scorch when left open (Ray, Green, Jet, etc). As soon as those players get defensive attention, they are gone, like Ray, Green, etc.

Garnett is one of my favorite players, but shooting that low from the field as a big man is just inexcusable.
The fact that he was the main focus of the defense isn't an excuse, every star big man is the main focus of the opposing defense. Yet guys like Shaq, Duncan, Hakeem, etc have had great Finals performances on BOTH ends and earned Finals MVP's for it. 18 on 42% for a big isn't Finals MVP worthy, his defense was great though.

Context my friend. EVERY single player in NBA history dropped in numbers and efficiency when swarmed with defense. Even Shaq, Dream or Jordan.

Example, when prime Shaq faced Spurs Twin Towers, his efficiency in some Playoffs series dropped to as low as 44%, and when facing teams with weaker frontlines, he went off to 60-65% FG. Thats massive difference, and Shaq is the most dominant post player of All-time. Should he be disqualified because such efficiency "isnt worthy"?

Jordan against Jazz had 42% FG, against Sonics 41%, against Knicks 40%.

Or recent spectacular (as called by many fans) run by Dirk, and he had 41% FG. Actually after Mavs went down 1-2 in series, in remaining games Dirk had 37% FG, and 20% from 3PT. FMVP should be taken away from him, right?

Context matters. Superstars impact will always be greater than role players due to defensive attention, and many other things they do, like anchoring D (not Dirk, but KG, Duncan, Hakeem, etc). Sure, superstars can disappear, like Lebron did a couple of times, but thats not the case with KG. One of the things you can count on is him bringing 110% effort.

[LAZERUSS]

Ray scored the best (while wide open), but thats not the same as the best Finals performance, nor scoring should be the sole determination of The Most Valuable Player.

Recent examples, Danny Green was killing Heat from 3PT (when he was open), does it make him the Most Valuable Player? Open Jason Terry was killing Heat before that, was he more valuable than superstars on the court?

Scoring is just one aspect of the game, and situation when/how they score, matters too.

Its completely different when superstar gets swarmed with defense (KG, Kobe), and when other players scorch when left open (Ray, Green, Jet, etc). As soon as those players get defensive attention, they are gone, like Ray, Green, etc.



Context my friend. EVERY single player in NBA history dropped in numbers and efficiency when swarmed with defense. Even Shaq, Dream or Jordan.

Example, when prime Shaq faced Spurs Twin Towers, his efficiency in some Playoffs series dropped to as low as 44%, and when facing teams with weaker frontlines, he went off to 60-65% FG. Thats massive difference, and Shaq is the most dominant post player of All-time. Should he be disqualified because such efficiency "isnt worthy"?

Jordan against Jazz had 42% FG, against Sonics 41%, against Knicks 40%.

Or recent spectacular (as called by many fans) run by Dirk, and he had 41% FG. Actually after Mavs went down 1-2 in series, in remaining games Dirk had 37% FG, and 20% from 3PT. FMVP should be taken away from him, right?

Context matters. Superstars impact will always be greater than role players due to defensive attention, and many other things they do, like anchoring D (not Dirk, but KG, Duncan, Hakeem, etc). Sure, superstars can disappear, like Lebron did a couple of times, but thats not the case with KG. One of the things you can count on is him bringing 110% effort.

Excellent post.

[Real Men Wear Green]

The leading scorer on the team is somehow the most undeserving Finals MVP "ever?" Allen and KG had arguments but the hyperbole isn't justified. Pierce won it for the following reasons:

1. He was the top scorer, by 1 point or fifty that's a fact.

2. Pierce was the celtics best offensive player in at least 4 0f the 6 games and possibly five. Allen was better in Game 3, Pierce's one terrible game, and that's why the averages are closer. In the deciding Game 6 Allen was the better scorer(26 to 17 on much better percentages) but Pierce also put in 10 assists and the way LA was getting pounded no one was even noticing the stats on the evening at the time. Because the series was really over in

3. The pivotal Game 4. While Allen defended Bryant more than anyone throughout the series, the "myth that Pierce matched up with Kobe" is rooted in the fact that Pierce took turns on him and in Game 4 the Cs were down 18 at the half when Pierce took over defending Bryant for the rest of the game. That was a key to the massive come-from-behind victory that put LA into a 1-3 hole. After that, everyone knew that the Lakers were done.

Had there been a Game 7 and Ray Allen had a huge night while Pierce didn't shine, maybe things are different. But as it stands, Pierce deserved that award as much as anyone. Worst choice in NBA history? That's a joke.