Bird allowed McHale to shine

[Kblaze8855]

It was plenty effective.. the heat romped to the Finals on it. It took the disappearance act of the century for them to lose, and it didn't come from Bosh.

3 pt shooters are more valuable to bron's game than a midrange PF.. once he got some good ones they were more effective, or just as.. because that's a better match to bron's game. That isn't necessarily true of his atg perimeter contemporaries.. especially Bird.

It appears him being limited was plenty effective. They won what....66-67 games and 27 in a row before winning the first title the season he took a step back? He only started 10 games in the playoffs. They won back to back with him putting up 12/7 and zero in game 7 and 10 in game 6.

Seems him not being heavily involved was fairly effective.

[SouBeachTalents]

That was after game 6, right? The game in which Bosh took 8 shots and made 1 (1-1 from the 3) and let Hibbert score 24 on 55%. 5/4 in a game 6 from a perennial All-Star. 3-13 in the final game as well.

Here's his shot chart for the last 2 games, BTW.

Bosh had a WOAT level series in the 2013 ECF. Not many future HOF's in their prime had a series of 11/4 on 38%, scoring single digits in 4 straight games while getting destroyed by the likes of Roy ****ing Hibbert

[tpols]

So Chris Bosh is Dwayne Wade?

Wade is(was) one of the greatest attackers in basketball history. He led his team to a ring in 06 doing just that. He is going to want touches in his spots to attack because he...unlike Bosh...has the will to lead.

Has nothing to do with Bosh.

Nobody ever heard me say Wade is soft.

I didn't even care much about the wade part.. the rythym part and mentioning of bosh was the relevant part.


If you don't think being told to go sit in the corner matters to somebody's game I don't know what to tell you. I understand Bosh is a laid back guy who "goes with the flow", mild mannered guy, but what is the root cause here? The strategy that puts him in a 4th option role behind veteran shooters.. he didn't curse everybody out like McHale would've.. great. Still doesn't take away the fact why it initially happened.

[tpols]

It appears him being limited was plenty effective. They won what....66-67 games and 27 in a row before winning the first title the season he took a step back? He only started 10 games in the playoffs. They won back to back with him putting up 12/7 and zero in game 7 and 10 in game 6.

Seems him not being heavily involved was fairly effective.

and if bron goes 2011 mode in either the 2012 or 2013 Finals they get destroyed.. the difference wasn't Bosh vs the shooters, it was bron going from 2/10 to 8-9/10 difference in his performances.


Put 2012 Lebron performance up against Dallas? They'd probably sweep.


so lets be real here...

[feyki]

I don't think like A player created B player stuff . Mchale was great player . He was probably most efficient post up scorer .

[Kblaze8855]

So you look past the words to find what you think he meant when Bosh admits he doesnt want to attack but Wade mentions himself...and someone else...and you dont look deeper and assume he merely mentioned someone else to not look selfish?

Anyway....

The root cause of it happening? Bosh allowing it to happen. You dont think people get hit with a gameplan they dont like and just....refuse to go along with it?

I asked you earlier...

What do you think happens when you present this plan to Karl Malone? guy who by 96 or so....was a shooter. How do you think he takes it? Barkley Mchale? The people who arent built that way...dont get marganilized to begin with. Nobody would even think to attempt it.

You cant blame Lebron James for another adults issues. Chris Bosh....is not assertive. He was placed in a position non assertive people get placed....to play off those who are.

At what point do we hold a man responsible for his situation? Chris Bosh is not a child.

Chris Bosh will let you do whatever you want with him.

Kevin Mchale would not.

So I dont see why we compare them.

Bosh has a role players mentality with a stars first step.

The river flows one way...he goes that way. We are comparing him to guys who swim upstream. Hes damn near a different species.

[SouBeachTalents]

and if bron goes 2011 mode in either the 2012 or 2013 Finals they get destroyed.. the difference wasn't Bosh vs the shooters, it was bron going from 2/10 to 8-9/10 difference in his performances.


Put 2012 Lebron performance up against Dallas? They'd probably sweep.


so lets be real here...

Bro, if LeBron plays marginally better, like averages 20-22 ppg they probably sweep the Mavs

[Kblaze8855]

and if bron goes 2011 mode in either the 2012 or 2013 Finals they get destroyed.. the difference wasn't Bosh vs the shooters, it was bron going from 2/10 to 8-9/10 difference in his performances.


Put 2012 Lebron performance up against Dallas? They'd probably sweep.


so lets be real here...

So...Bosh isnt the difference maker?

I dont think anything I said could be taken to mean I thought he was.

You tell me he was at his best being featured. Mention that he had a great run....talking about how effective it was.

Fact is...they had their BEST runs...without him being featured. They were among the best teams...ever...without his being featured.

They won...back to back rings...without him being heavily involved in the offense.

You mention a failed run with him attacking...I mention two successful runs with him in a lesser role.

Hes popping champagne from the backseat:




But they shouldnt have put him there?

We criticizing a victorious strategy he apparently was happy to play into?

Whatever I think about him as a #1....he did the RIGHT thing changing his game. He isnt a guy to put his head down and lead you anywhere. He deferred to two people who are.

Perfectly rational decision that got him rings.

I dont blame him for that.

[tpols]

Bosh has a role players mentality with a stars first step.
.

all that means is he's superbly talented, but, like you said, malleable, and soft.


What does this mean? It means he can be shaped in any which way, he has the talent to be shaped into a 8/10 player, but just as easily can be a 5/10 player and he wont throw punches over it.


So that was the point all along.. a guy like Bird, Magic, even Kobe would never use a big guy like that.. and Bosh would follow their lead/the teams strategy, and look much better than he did on Miami.


Yes he doesn't have the balls to say no to Lebron's style.. I see that. He wouldn't have to have the balls to say no to those other guys because the strategy would never be entertained from the start, it just wouldn't exist. And no amount of "he's a grown man" interferes with that logic.

[tpols]

So...Bosh isnt the difference maker?

I dont think anything I said could be taken to mean I thought he was.

You tell me he was at his best being featured. Mention that he had a great run....talking about how effective it was.

Fact is...they had their BEST runs...without him being featured. They were among the best teams...ever...without his being featured.

They won...back to back rings...without him being heavily involved in the offense.

You mention a failed run with him attacking...I mention two successful runs with him in a lesser role.

Hes popping champagne from the backseat:




But they shouldnt have put him there?

We criticizing a victorious strategy he apparently was happy to play into?

Whatever I think about him as a #1....he did the RIGHT thing changing his game. He isnt a guy to put his head down and lead you anywhere. He deferred to two people who are.

Perfectly rational decision that got him rings.

I dont blame him for that.

this is all assuming the reason for Bron dropping 10 ppg off his average was because of Bosh... it wasn't. Its almost inexplicable, but that wasn't bosh's fault. Now you're just being dishonest.


If we see Lebron come out in 2011 Finals like he did in 2012, not shook at all, with a more Bosh-centric game then shooters-centric game, they beat the Mavs, plain and simple. So its not like the "Bosh-style" didn't work.. it worked great for 99% of the year, and had almost nothing to do with why they eventually lost.

[Kblaze8855]

this is all assuming the reason for Bron dropping 10 ppg off his average was because of Bosh... it wasn't. Its almost inexplicable, but that wasn't bosh's fault. Now you're just being dishonest.

If id said it perhaps it would be. Im not sure what you are eve ntalking about there. i'll have to reread it all in a moment.

And Bird, Magic, and Kobe would never use a bigman like that? So....coaches dont exist?

We actually saying....Lebron James decided where the power forward stands in the Heats sets?

Pat Riley let that happen?

Why does that coaching staff exist exactly?

Could it be that they intended to win...saw that playing through Lebron made that more likely....did so...and were right?

And if you literally just wont hold an adult responsible for their performance ill just let it go. "Its someone elses fault" isnt an argument im prepared to go too deeply into. The whole star blaming mythos goes too far at times for my liking. All these people are professionals. A man is responsible for his own actions. He decided to be exactly what he is. He flat out told you he did.

You telling me hes lying and Lebron did it seems like an impasse. This is one of those conversations better had in person. Text makes it seems more contentions than I intended. On the bottom line....I hold Chris Bosh responsible for being Chris Bosh. Seems you dont. I'll leave it there.

Gonna go get ready for these playoff games....later.

[IGOTGAME]

Relative to the number of available possessions Bosh actually took more shots in 2012 than Mchale in 87. And last year Bosh took 16.9 a game....about the same as Mchales career high 17. And he scored 21 a game.

Bosh took more shots a game last year than he ever did in Toronto. Despite playing less minutes than he did in all but his rookie season there. Most shots....less points than his last 5 years as a Raptor. I suppose Lebron just...broke him forever?

We holding Bron responsible for the play of grown men on other teams?

How many of these shots were 3s or long jumpers as opposed to when he was in Toronto...

[LAZERUSS]

IMO, Bosh's IMPACT has been minimal in his career. I get a kick out of those that try to compare this "ten time AS" to a player like Horace Grant.

Bosh was drafted by a 24 win team, and hardly improved the team, at all. In fact, within a few of seasons, they went 27-55.

Even at his peak, in his last year in Toronto, he hung a 24-11 season...and the result was a 35-35 record (and 5-7 without him.) Overall, he had one winning season in Toronto, and was a loser...plain-and-simple.

His IMPACT with the Heat has also been minimal. His defense has been way over-rated, and he was abused by the statue of Roy Hibbert, and then an old Duncan. When he couldn't defend Duncan, he was helpless chasing the other Spurs shooters all over the floor, and instead, became a bystander.

And now he even admits that he can't mix it up any more.

And let's get real here...this notion that he created "spacing" for Lebron and Wade. No more than any other 3pt shooter would have. He had practically zero post-up impact, and wasn't get offensive rebounds.

He would have been easily replaceable in all four of his seasons in Miami.

And in '15, the Heat went 19-25 with him.

The reality was, he has Lebron to thank for what is likely an (undeserved) trip to the HOF. Without him, he would be considered the most worthless 20-10 player in NBA history. Now, at least he can say he was a (minimal) 3rd wheel on a mini-dynasty.


Compare that with Grant, who immediately elevated EVERY team he joined, was the interior force on the Bulls from '91 thru '95, was arguably the most efficient PF in the league in those years, and was super clutch.

Grant was such a force, that he destroyed Jordan's Bulls in their '95 ECSF's, and may have done so again in '96, had he been injured in the first half of game one of that series.

He played on winning teams nearly his entire career, and was even a valuable contributor to a Laker title team near the end of his career.

Grant >>>>>> Bosh.

[1987_Lakers]

It would be fun to have a McHale in today's league. I don't think some people realize just how easily he scored when he had position in the post, it was unbelievable. I watched alot of Celtics games during the '86 postseason, and in game 3 vs Chicago there was a period of time where the Celtics went to McHale in the post for like 3-4 consecutive plays and he just scored with ease every single time, Dave Corzine looked clueless, also in game 2 when MJ scored 63, McHale made a shot while he was on the floor.

What also gets overlooked in McHale's game is his defense, he was an elite defender for many years, a few All-Defensive honors and had the ability to guard players from Moses Malone to Dominique Wilkins. Curry is my all-time favorite guard to watch, and McHale is my all-time favorite post player to watch.