Message Board Basketball Forum - InsideHoops

Go Back   Message Board Basketball Forum - InsideHoops > InsideHoops Main Basketball Forums > Off the Court Lounge

Off the Court Lounge Basketball fans talk about everything EXCEPT basketball here

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 11-21-2012, 07:37 PM   #46
miller-time
NBA sixth man of the year
 
miller-time's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 7,992
miller-time is considered a brilliant InsideHoops postermiller-time is considered a brilliant InsideHoops postermiller-time is considered a brilliant InsideHoops postermiller-time is considered a brilliant InsideHoops postermiller-time is considered a brilliant InsideHoops postermiller-time is considered a brilliant InsideHoops postermiller-time is considered a brilliant InsideHoops postermiller-time is considered a brilliant InsideHoops postermiller-time is considered a brilliant InsideHoops postermiller-time is considered a brilliant InsideHoops poster
Default Re: Derren Brown deconstructs faith and gives an atheist a profound religious experience

Quote:
Originally Posted by -p.tiddy-
and let me ask you this Miller, be honest please...ON AVERAGE who would you guess is happier inside, the atheist, or the person that believes there is an after life waiting for him after this?

i honestly can't answer that. nearly all of my friends are atheists and none of them are depressed. the one friend i do have that is christian has had life long depression - but i don't put that down to his religious beliefs. so from my experience atheists are not more depressed than religious people.

i don't see any evidence of it. it might be that you find the idea of no afterlife depressing, but not everybody finds it that way, and i am certainty not worried about it. thinking and worrying about death is only one part of life, it doesn't have to take over someones entire life. from my experience atheists tend to focus more on the here and now as opposed to what happens after death, and in doing so they find meaning in life in other ways.

Last edited by miller-time : 11-21-2012 at 08:18 PM.
miller-time is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2012, 02:19 AM   #47
-p.tiddy-
the Sho Kosugi of ISH
 
-p.tiddy-'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: -dallas, texas-
Posts: 14,999
-p.tiddy- is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginable-p.tiddy- is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginable-p.tiddy- is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginable-p.tiddy- is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginable-p.tiddy- is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginable-p.tiddy- is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginable-p.tiddy- is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginable-p.tiddy- is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginable-p.tiddy- is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginable-p.tiddy- is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginable-p.tiddy- is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginable
Default Re: Derren Brown deconstructs faith and gives an atheist a profound religious experience

Quote:
Originally Posted by lakers_forever
Yep.

Religious affiliation and suicide attempt: http://ajp.psychiatryonline.org/arti...ticleid=177228

Religious Aspects of Substance Abuse and Recovery (more substance abuse among atheists): http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/1...324.x/abstract

Religion linked to happy life:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/7302609.stm

Very Religious Americans Lead Healthier Lives
http://www.gallup.com/poll/145379/Re...ier-Lives.aspx

Harvard Professor study says religious people are better citizens and neighbors:

http://www.pewforum.org/Religion-New...tudy-says.aspx

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/...umn15_ST_N.htm


Impact of religion on health.


http://psycnet.apa.org/journals/amp/58/1/53/
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12008795
http://heb.sagepub.com/content/25/6/700.abstract
http://linkinghub.elsevier.com/retri...90?via=sd&cc=y
Good post

You should read up Miller...the evidence is all over the place, be wise and don't pretend it doesn't exist because it is what you want to believe...
-p.tiddy- is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2012, 02:43 AM   #48
miller-time
NBA sixth man of the year
 
miller-time's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 7,992
miller-time is considered a brilliant InsideHoops postermiller-time is considered a brilliant InsideHoops postermiller-time is considered a brilliant InsideHoops postermiller-time is considered a brilliant InsideHoops postermiller-time is considered a brilliant InsideHoops postermiller-time is considered a brilliant InsideHoops postermiller-time is considered a brilliant InsideHoops postermiller-time is considered a brilliant InsideHoops postermiller-time is considered a brilliant InsideHoops postermiller-time is considered a brilliant InsideHoops poster
Default Re: Derren Brown deconstructs faith and gives an atheist a profound religious experience

Quote:
Originally Posted by -p.tiddy-
Good post

You should read up Miller...the evidence is all over the place, be wise and don't pretend it doesn't exist because it is what you want to believe...

did i ever say it doesn't exist? my entire point is that there are confounding variables. there might be a correlation between religiosity and health (mental and/or physical) however that doesn't mean that religious beliefs are the direct cause of better health. there are two other factors that have to be considered. one is a persons social environment and the other is psychological mechanisms.

for example, when a man marries a woman generally the mans health goes up while the woman's goes down. if we were to simply look at marriage and male health we might conclude that marriage has health benefits for males. when in reality it is because they are being taken care of by the female at the expense of her own health. these types of relationships can be made in a large number of different situations. it might not be religion directly that is causing health benefits but rather various other social dynamics (like a sense of belonging to a group at the expense of social interaction with people that identify with another group).

at an individual level psychologically there are benefits of religious belief too. however (and we've been through this before i know) if religious practice is a means to an end, then why not try and understand the underlying mechanisms of which religious belief is acting upon and go after them directly? religion might not be helpful for everyone, just like pharmaceutical or psychological approaches might not be helpful for everyone either. but if we can figure out what aspects of religious belief are beneficial (both at the neurological level and the psychological level) we might be able help people more directly. religious belief does have possible draw backs such as social division and fundamentalism. if we can strip away those aspects and create an approach that acts on the same targets as religion then we could fix people without selling them hogwash.

Last edited by miller-time : 11-22-2012 at 02:45 AM.
miller-time is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2012, 03:42 AM   #49
ILLsmak
Life goes on.
 
ILLsmak's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 6,873
ILLsmak has decent reputationILLsmak has decent reputation
Default Re: Derren Brown deconstructs faith and gives an atheist a profound religious experience

Quote:
Originally Posted by LJJ
The problem is there are plenty of "studies" that tell a different tale.

For instance: here a study that shows that US youth are three times as likely to use prescribed psychotropic drugs than youths in the Netherlands or Germany.

http://www.capmh.com/content/2/1/26

How come that America's youths, the most religious first world country in the world by far, are so much more mentally unstable than Europe's youth? Especially a country like the Netherlands, were virtually nobody still visits church?


Because America is insane. Some of the most ****ed up people I've ever met were religious. They were hiding, per se. They were drug addicts that turned to God, supposedly.

But people who say religion is wrong or ignorant don't register with me. Is philosophy wrong? I think religion is a personal thing and organized religion has become something that manipulates people.

If you understand the concept of God (which is a great deal deeper than what most people who go to church believe) as an actual entity and stop trying to use "logic" and "science" to understand, you might grasp what it is all about.

People want to post studies, what does that even mean? How can you study who is religious and who isn't and what effect it has? I've rarely seen a conclusive social study. It's usually two sides with skewed statistics.

-Smak
ILLsmak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2012, 04:01 AM   #50
Is He Ill
Cowboys & Spurs
 
Is He Ill's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Houston
Posts: 1,838
Is He Ill is considered somewhat coolIs He Ill is considered somewhat coolIs He Ill is considered somewhat cool
Default Re: Derren Brown deconstructs faith and gives an atheist a profound religious experience

Quote:
Originally Posted by ILLsmak
Because America is insane. Some of the most ****ed up people I've ever met were religious. They were hiding, per se. They were drug addicts that turned to God, supposedly.

But people who say religion is wrong or ignorant don't register with me. Is philosophy wrong? I think religion is a personal thing and organized religion has become something that manipulates people.

If you understand the concept of God (which is a great deal deeper than what most people who go to church believe) as an actual entity and stop trying to use "logic" and "science" to understand, you might grasp what it is all about.

People want to post studies, what does that even mean? How can you study who is religious and who isn't and what effect it has? I've rarely seen a conclusive social study. It's usually two sides with skewed statistics.

-Smak

Well said
Is He Ill is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2012, 06:13 AM   #51
-p.tiddy-
the Sho Kosugi of ISH
 
-p.tiddy-'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: -dallas, texas-
Posts: 14,999
-p.tiddy- is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginable-p.tiddy- is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginable-p.tiddy- is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginable-p.tiddy- is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginable-p.tiddy- is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginable-p.tiddy- is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginable-p.tiddy- is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginable-p.tiddy- is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginable-p.tiddy- is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginable-p.tiddy- is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginable-p.tiddy- is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginable
Default Re: Derren Brown deconstructs faith and gives an atheist a profound religious experience

Quote:
Originally Posted by miller-time
did i ever say it doesn't exist? my entire point is that there are confounding variables. there might be a correlation between religiosity and health (mental and/or physical) however that doesn't mean that religious beliefs are the direct cause of better health. there are two other factors that have to be considered. one is a persons social environment and the other is psychological mechanisms.

for example, when a man marries a woman generally the mans health goes up while the woman's goes down. if we were to simply look at marriage and male health we might conclude that marriage has health benefits for males. when in reality it is because they are being taken care of by the female at the expense of her own health. these types of relationships can be made in a large number of different situations. it might not be religion directly that is causing health benefits but rather various other social dynamics (like a sense of belonging to a group at the expense of social interaction with people that identify with another group).

at an individual level psychologically there are benefits of religious belief too. however (and we've been through this before i know) if religious practice is a means to an end, then why not try and understand the underlying mechanisms of which religious belief is acting upon and go after them directly? religion might not be helpful for everyone, just like pharmaceutical or psychological approaches might not be helpful for everyone either. but if we can figure out what aspects of religious belief are beneficial (both at the neurological level and the psychological level) we might be able help people more directly. religious belief does have possible draw backs such as social division and fundamentalism. if we can strip away those aspects and create an approach that acts on the same targets as religion then we could fix people without selling them hogwash.
Once again I will point out the it is being used by doctors to treat people OUTSIDE OF THEIR ENVIRONMENT...rich poor black white big small male female young old etc etc...if you are a human being of any type, and you are suffering from deep depression or mental illness, it could be treated with "faith" and studies have shown it helps.

And the root of it is the placebo effect...they believe their life has meaning now, that they have a spirit that will continue on after their body here dies, etc etc...this new found happiness changes neural pathways and effects chemicals in the brain in a positive way, the same way the exercise does...its just healthy positive thinking compared to the negative feelings of not existing any more, or not believing your life means anything at all.
-p.tiddy- is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2012, 03:34 PM   #52
Fallguy20
Suck-A-Fish
 
Fallguy20's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: bangin' in your boombox
Posts: 3,992
Fallguy20 has an incredible reputation hereFallguy20 has an incredible reputation hereFallguy20 has an incredible reputation hereFallguy20 has an incredible reputation hereFallguy20 has an incredible reputation hereFallguy20 has an incredible reputation hereFallguy20 has an incredible reputation hereFallguy20 has an incredible reputation here
Default Re: Derren Brown deconstructs faith and gives an atheist a profound religious experience

I know this thread is kinda one sided right now, and of course we all would expect it to be... respectfully I would just like to throw up a couple links for anyone to explore on their own.

John 14

FAQ on spiritual and doctrinal aspects from an LDS perspective

Life of Christ Bible Videos

The All or Nothing Mentality

-C. S. Lewis spoke of a similar dilemma faced by someone who must choose whether to accept or reject the Savior’s divinity—where there is likewise no middle ground:
Quote:
“I am trying here to prevent anyone saying the really foolish thing that people often say about Him: ‘I’m ready to accept Jesus as a great moral teacher, but I don’t accept His claim to be God.’ That is the one thing we must not say. A man who was merely a man and said the sort of things Jesus said would not be a great moral teacher. … You must make your choice. Either this man was, and is, the Son of God: or else a madman or something worse. … But let us not come with any patronising nonsense about His being a great human teacher. He has not left that open to us. He did not intend to.”
Fallguy20 is offline   Reply With Quote
This NBA Basketball News Website Sponsored by:
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:01 PM.




NBA Basketball Forum Key Links:
InsideHoops Home
NBA Rumors
Basketball Blog
NBA Daily Recaps
NBA Videos
Fantasy Basketball
NBA Mock Draft
NBA Free Agents
All-Star Weekend
---
High School Basketball
Streetball
---
InsideHoops Twitter
Search Our Site













Powered by vBulletin Version 3.5.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd. Terms of Use/Service | Privacy Policy