Julius Erving vs. Scottie Pippen

[Lebron23]

Who had the better career?

Julius Erving

* 1

[Roundball_Rock]

Scottie Pippen


# 6x NBA Champion (1991–1993, 1996–1998)
# 7x NBA All-Star (1990, 1992–1997)
# 1x NBA All-Star Game MVP (1994)
# 3x All-NBA First Team Selection (1994–1996)
# 2x All-NBA Second Team Selection (1992, 1997)
# 2x All-NBA Third Team Selection (1993, 1998)
# 8x NBA All-Defensive First Team Selection (1992–1999)
# 2x NBA All-Defensive Second Team Selection (1991, 2000)
# NBA's 50th Anniversary All-Team
# GOAT perimeter defender

Fixed.

Also why are you using ABA stats for Erving? The ABA was a joke. When Dr. J moved to the NBA his stats declined roughly 25% across the board.

Here are his NBA stats: 22.0 ppg, 8.5 rpg, 3.9 apg, 1.8 spg, 1.5 bpg, 50.7 FG %, 77.7 FT %

[Interminator]

Why didn't you include Erving's ABA stats and accomplishments if you're asking about their basketball career?


Julius Erving.

/End Thread

[Peter Griffin]

Easily Scottie Pippen, he was a big reason why the Bulls won 6 titles! Also, he was the Greatest Perimeter Defender of All-Time! Also, when you compare players, shouldn't we take offense and the defense in combined consideration?! Pippen is my choice! Also without Pippen, Michael Jordan would be nothing but a career loser in the playoffs!

[Roundball_Rock]

Why didn't you include Erving's ABA stats and accomplishments if you're asking about their basketball career?

The ABA was a joke. If we are going to go outside the NBA let's look at Pippen winning two gold medals. On the original Dream Team it was he, not John Stockton or Magic Johnson, who led the team in assists (it shows what prime Pippen could do as far as assists go outside the triangle offense), and was the second best player on the team (behind MJ of course) according to the coach of the team, Chuck Daly.

Also, when you compare players, shouldn't we take offense and the defense in combined consideration?!

We should since defense is half the game but a lot of people only look at scoring. If you factor in defense then Pippen is top 20 all-time.

[hateraid]

Lol at:

-people saying Julius was at a decline in the NBA
-people underestimating Dr.J as a defender

Maybe Scottie had the better career in the NBA but he's not the better player.

[Roundball_Rock]

He did decline when he played against real comp.

Dr. J's last year in the ABA: 29.3 ppg, 11.0 rpg, 5.0 apg, 2.5 spg, 1.9 bpg
Dr. J the following year in the NBA: 21.6 pgg, 8.5 rpg, 3.7 apg, 1.9 apg, 1.4 bpg

His stats were down roughly 25% across the board when he moved up to the NBA.

[Disaprine]

Dr J wins

[InspiredLebowski]

He did decline when he played against real comp.

Dr. J's last year in the ABA: 29.3 ppg, 11.0 rpg, 5.0 apg, 2.5 spg, 1.9 bpg
Dr. J the following year in the NBA: 21.6 pgg, 8.5 rpg, 3.7 apg, 1.9 apg, 1.4 bpg

His stats were down roughly 25% across the board when he moved up to the NBA.

That's because of the pace differences and the lack of the 3 (though admittedly it probably didn't help J much). If the NBA was such better competition the year after the merger why were over half the players former ABAers?

[hateraid]

He did decline when he played against real comp.

Dr. J's last year in the ABA: 29.3 ppg, 11.0 rpg, 5.0 apg, 2.5 spg, 1.9 bpg
Dr. J the following year in the NBA: 21.6 pgg, 8.5 rpg, 3.7 apg, 1.9 apg, 1.4 bpg

His stats were down roughly 25% across the board when he moved up to the NBA.

From his transition from the ABA to the NBA Julius went from a team who's second best player was John williamson to a Sixer team that had scorers like George McGinnis, Doug Collins, and World B. Free, rebounders like McGinnis again, Caldwell Jones, and Darryl Dawkins, and talents like Fred Carter, Joe Bryant, and Henry Bibby as well. He played less minutes and had 300 less touches in the season. Of course his stats would decline! But upon Julius's arrival he improved the team's record and took first in the Atlantic, was still they're leading scorer, had took them to the finals (previous year they were outed in the first round by Buffalo), and made all-second team with teammate McGinnis. Four years later won a league MVP, was always on the NBA first team (until 1983), and was the only player to be a starter in the ASG his whole NBA career.

[Jailblazers7]

Dr, J was a basketball revolutionary. Dozens of players after him can point to his style as highly influencial on them. Pippen was great in his own right but his impact was far less compared to Erving's.

That said I'm still taking Dr. J. The NBA #'s might be decieving but Dr.J's prime athletic years were spent in the just as competitive ABA.

[Bush4Ever]

People who claim the ABA is a joke are misguided.

The statistics are going to be inflated in the ABA, due to the pace of the game. But the teams and players were on par with the NBA players at the time, so accomplishments and ranks are still valid.

In a series of exhibition games (155 games total), the ABA went 79-76 against the NBA in interleague games.

In the year following the merger, roughly half of the All-star players had ABA roots. The competition was absolutely legitimate.

So, I think it makes sense to adjust his raw statistics from the ABA, but hold his ranks (like leading the league in scoring 3 times), and his hardware (3 MVPs and two playoff MVPs) as they are.

If you do so, Dr. J has 2 rings (1 as a lead player), 4 MVPs, and 2 Playoff MVPs. That's a legit argument against Pippen, who never reached such heights relative to his peers.

[Roundball_Rock]

Dr, J was a basketball revolutionary. Dozens of players after him can point to his style as highly influencial on them. Pippen was great in his own right but his impact was far less compared to Erving's.

Pippen himself greatly admired Dr J. Pippen's influence on the game is underrated. He pioneered the idea of a point forward and look at how many point forwards we have in today's NBA (LeBron, Turk, Odom, et al.). Did any SF ever influence the game as much defensively as Pip did?

All that said, Erving clearly influenced the game more than Pippen. His influence on the game is rivaled by only a handful of players.

Better career: Pippen
Better player: Erving
Greater impact: Erving

Erving won one MVP and finished top 5 in MVP voting five times. Pippen should have been the 1994 MVP but only has one other top 5 finish. Strangely, in 1995 when he led his team in everything he slipped to 7th in the MVP race. This is another example of him being underrated.

On the subject of accolades and voting, Pippen finished 2nd in DPOY voting twice, 3rd once, and 4th twice.

As to the ABA, like the AFL it ultimately failed because it was fielded an inferior product.

[InspiredLebowski]

The ABA was specifically created to force a merger

[Bush4Ever]

As to the ABA, like the AFL it ultimately failed because it was fielded an inferior product.

It may have been "fielded" that way, but the evidence suggests that the ABA was directly on par with the NBA, both in terms of overall talent (even record in interleague games) and elite talent (half of all-stars after merger were NBA players).

His ABA accomplishments, ranks, and hardware should absolute count in this discussion. His ABA statistics should be adjusted for pace, however.