Kareem vs Shaq vs Hakeem vs Russell vs Wilt

[Lebron23]

no way kareem is #1. wilt, hakeem, and shaq are all better. i guess none of u remember kareem getting dominated by moses in the early 80's.

Moses Malone is severely underrated in this forum, and i think he is one of the greatest rebounding Center in the history of the NBA.

[TruthKGRay3412]

1.Wilt
2.Kareem
3.Russell
4.Shaq
5.Hakeem

[iggy>]

Moses Malone is severely underrated in this forum, and i think he is one of the greatest rebounding Center in the history of the NBA.

i agree, top 4 center of all time to me. he was the best player on what may be the best team ever, the 1983 sixers.

id still put kareem ahead of moses because i think moses underachieved a bit when it came to championships. but head to head, moses>

[iggy>]

I bet you also don't remember Hakeem getting dominated by the Sonics in 1996 or Shaq getting outplayed by Duncan in 2001.

your talking about hakeem getting dominated by a team, kareem was dominated by another player. and how did duncan outplay shaq? the lakers swept the spurs in 01.

[db23]

Wilt blew in the playoffs, so many chokes and his ppg bombed from his regular season stats.He is like the orignal Kobe, he can get great stats during the regular season when defences are looser and there is no pressure but cracks up come playoff time.Winners raise their play in the playoffs, I dont consider anyone who doesnt at least equal their regular season stats in the playoffs consistently to be a great player IMHO.Its starting to get to the point where I feel regular season stats should be ignored completely when it comes to judging the top 10/15 of all time.

[Psileas]

your talking about hakeem getting dominated by a team, kareem was dominated by another player. and how did duncan outplay shaq? the lakers swept the spurs in 01.

a) Hakeem was seriously limited by nobodies. Teams with mediocre centers didn't dominate Kareem in a similar way. And if you have any problems with that, let me give you another example: Hakeem getting dominated by Shaq in 1999-before you mention his age, bear in mind that Hakeem was just as old as Kareem was in your example against Moses.
b) Are we talking about teams now? Shaq has been swept like 6-7 times, so that's not exactly an issue. ;) BTW, I meant 2002, not 2001. Yes, the Lakers still won, but Duncan pretty clearly outplayed Shaq.

[joe lucky]

if we go with the "of all time" part of the the term that would definitely refer to a long and productive career:
(1) Kareem (stayed amazingly good for a long time)
(2) Wilt
(3) Shaquille (I'll forgive the last two years and remember that near decade of dominance)
(4) Bill

If we are talking who would play the best on a given night better than any of the others:
(1) Hakeem
(2) Shaq
(3) Kareem

When Hakeem is on he is the perfect center at both ends. Quick, versatile, nearly-unstoppable on offense. Can outright stop really good centers from having good nights on defense. He played smart defense allowing him to stay on the floor.

Shaq comes in second because if he decided to dominate in his prime he could. Foul problems on both sides bump him down a bit.

While I only got to watch the tail end of Kareem's career he wasn't nearly as imposing on defense on a given night than either Shaq or Hakeem. Scoring wise on a given night he could decimate the other team.

I'm too young to give a fair rating of Wilt or Bill's ability on a given night to dominate (well maybe the 100 point game is evidence enough that Wilt should be on top). Bill Russell just based on classic game clips seems like a guy who didn't dominate (definitely not on offense) but definitely worked hard enough on every play to give the other team fits.

[1987_Lakers]

1. Wilt Chamberlain
2. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
3. Shaquille O'Neal
4. Bill Russell
5. Hakeem Olajuwon

[Psileas]

Wilt blew in the playoffs, so many chokes and his ppg bombed from his regular season stats.He is like the orignal Kobe, he can get great stats during the regular season when defences are looser and there is no pressure but cracks up come playoff time.Winners raise their play in the playoffs, I dont consider anyone who doesnt at least equal their regular season stats in the playoffs consistently to be a great player IMHO.Its starting to get to the point where I feel regular season stats should be ignored completely when it comes to judging the top 10/15 of all time.

It's "kinda" hard to produce the very same numbers (let alone better) as long as you're guarded by 2 of the 5 best defensive centers of all time in 40%+ of your playoff games. No high scoring center would be able to up his numbers if he had to face his competition. Kareem is a great example: The only time Kareem played in Wilt's era and produced more than in his regular season was in 1970, when he didn't face a top-2 defensive center (Willis Reed wasn't at Wilt's or Thurmonds level, even back then-yes, even then, not all all-D team choices were 100% valid and objective). In 1971, he faced Wilt and guess what: His scoring averages dropped significantly. In 1972, he faced Wilt and Thurmond and his averages fell even more. In 1973, he faced Thurmond and his averages collapsed. In 1974, no Wilt, no Nate and, surprise, his averages went up...Wilt had to endure this crap for practically his whole career, having to face either Russell or Thurmond or both (not to mention Kareem himself), in playoffs with less rounds and with most of his playoff games coming from the years he stopped caring about scoring as much, so his averages fell significantly.

BTW, it's at least funny how averages of 22.5 ppg, 24.5 rpg, 4.2 apg and countless blocked shots can seriously be consider "blowing", at least if you don't compare these numbers with Wilt's own numbers from the regular season...

[Lax4422Chik1342]

1 Kareem
2 Wilt (if he had had a stronger mindset would be number one by far) Was the best athelete of the group, tremendous track n field man and world class vollyballer
3 Russell (his unparalled will to win overcomes his shortcomings, 11 0f 13 NBA and 13 of 15 including college championships speak volumes)
4 Hakeem
5 Shaq

Most underrated, most underappreciated and 'forgotten' center, Nate Thurmond. Wilt, Russ and Kareem all have said their toughest opponent was Nate Thurmond I am not a fan of the so-called double stats but Thurmond is the only player to achieve a quadruple double, the 4th double being blocked shots. Both #6 and #13 would've have several quad doubles in their careers had blocked shots been kept as an official NBA stat, Karrem might have had one or two as well in his early career.

I've seen them all live and on TV, I've been a NBA-er since 1962, I'm 58.

[millwad]

a) Hakeem was seriously limited by nobodies. Teams with mediocre centers didn't dominate Kareem in a similar way. And if you have any problems with that, let me give you another example: Hakeem getting dominated by Shaq in 1999-before you mention his age, bear in mind that Hakeem was just as old as Kareem was in your example against Moses.
b) Are we talking about teams now? Shaq has been swept like 6-7 times, so that's not exactly an issue. ;) BTW, I meant 2002, not 2001. Yes, the Lakers still won, but Duncan pretty clearly outplayed Shaq.

Tell me one time Hakeem was "seriously limited by nobodies"? You're full of bs.
And Shaq getting dominated by Shaq may have been caused by Hakeem being 36 and injurieplagued while Shaq being in his prime? 4 years earlier Hakeem swept Shaq's ass in the finals.

[VCMVP1551]

1.Shaquille O'Neal
2.Wilt Chamberlain
3.Kareem Abdul Jabbar
4.Hakeem Olajuwon
5.Bill Russell

[millwad]

1 Kareem
2 Wilt (if he had had a stronger mindset would be number one by far) Was the best athelete of the group, tremendous track n field man and world class vollyballer
3 Russell (his unparalled will to win overcomes his shortcomings, 11 0f 13 NBA and 13 of 15 including college championships speak volumes)
4 Hakeem
5 Shaq

Most underrated, most underappreciated and 'forgotten' center, Nate Thurmond. Wilt, Russ and Kareem all have said their toughest opponent was Nate Thurmond I am not a fan of the so-called double stats but Thurmond is the only player to achieve a quadruple double, the 4th double being blocked shots. Both #6 and #13 would've have several quad doubles in their careers had blocked shots been kept as an official NBA stat, Karrem might have had one or two as well in his early career.

I've seen them all live and on TV, I've been a NBA-er since 1962, I'm 58.

Hm, you forgot Hakeem's, Robinson's and Alvin Robertson's quadruple double, didn't you? And Hakeem almost had two in the same month, the league took away one of his assists in one of the games.

[Manute for Ever!]

1.Wilt
2.Kareem
3.Russell
4.Shaq
5.Hakeem

I agree with this. As much as I love Hakeem, I think he does get overrated on this board. I got to see 3 of those guys play, very few on here saw all 5, most probably saw just Dream and Shaq and are basing it off of those two.

[Jimmy2k8]

shaq is not the greatest center of all time.