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Old 07-08-2007, 02:12 PM   #61
Jailblazers7
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Default Re: Official #17 NBA Player Of All Time According To ISH

George Mikan
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Old 07-08-2007, 02:13 PM   #62
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Default Re: Official #17 NBA Player Of All Time According To ISH

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Originally Posted by Poseidon
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11. Jerry West 12. Julius Erving 13. Moses Malone 14. Elgin Baylor 15. Bob Pettit 16. John Havlicek

All these players ahead of Karl Malone and Kobe Bryant?

Another reason why this stupid subject needs to die.

The majority of ISH members have NO clue when it comes to pro basketball. Sad.
When I saw Kobe I laughed. Kobe doesn't come close to any of those guys. Although I do agree that Malone should be in there somewhere. The guy is number 2 in points scored all-time, and if not for the GOAT he would probably have a ring or two.

Karl Malone
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Old 07-08-2007, 02:23 PM   #63
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Default Re: Official #17 NBA Player Of All Time According To ISH

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Kblaze, do you think Tim Duncan has hit the "All-Time Elite" level? His best season was 25/13, which is merely average compared to other all-time greats at his position (PF/C).

Elite like Miachel, Kareem, and Wilt at the top of their games? No. But Tim at the top of his game and Karl at the top of his....Tim is both a better offensive and defensive player. More individually dominant. Easily. The 4 rings dont hurt either for the "Legacy matters most" types.

I really see no comparison between the two. Tim is on a different level. Not different like Jordan to John Starks. But a difference like Jordan to Clyde Drexler or Nique.
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Old 07-08-2007, 02:27 PM   #64
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Default Re: Official #17 NBA Player Of All Time According To ISH

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Originally Posted by Kblaze8855
Elite like Miachel, Kareem, and Wilt at the top of their games? No. But Tim at the top of his game and Karl at the top of his....Tim is both a better offensive and defensive player. More individually dominant. Easily. The 4 rings dont hurt either for the "Legacy matters most" types.

I really see no comparison between the two. Tim is on a different level. Not different like Jordan to John Starks. But a difference like Jordan to Clyde Drexler or Nique.
I know Duncan is over Malone

but saying Duncan is a better offensive player is just stupid.
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Old 07-08-2007, 02:37 PM   #65
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Default Re: Official #17 NBA Player Of All Time According To ISH

George Mikan.
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Old 07-08-2007, 03:07 PM   #66
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Default Re: Official #17 NBA Player Of All Time According To ISH

Offense isnt PPG and it isnt a career point total. Karl Malones offense was so symbiotic with Stockton he never developed as an individual go to scorer. Could he score on his own? yes. Could you throw him the ball when all is looking lost and expect him to carry the offense while the rest of the team plays poorly? No. I remember during the early 90s during some random game the announce team pointed out that nobody ever scored as much off assists. At that point in whatever season he was blowing away everyone in assisted baskets. It was during a thing on how Stockton and Malone played off eachother.

Karl could score. But there is a long list of guys with a lot less points who were better scorers. And better offensive players in general. Duncan is a better passer out of the post though Malone found cutters better. Duncan a much better post scorer. Much better. Which is the most important offensive skill for a bigman. Duncan does more to help his teammates score as well. Hes easier for a scoring guard to play off because as a post scorer he justifies more off the ball defense. Opens up lanes.

Malones go to play was one he could only execute half of. The pick and roll. Not a coincidence that when Karl was scoring 29-31 over the early 90s Stockton was getting 13-15 assists a game. I remember a big game he had where Stockton assisted Malone on like 13 of 16 baskets. They used to discuss it on "Chalk talk". Remember chalk talk?

Karl could have been a good scorer without John but his dependance on him(and how effective they were together) let him go a whole career without branching out. He added a jumper over his career but he never became a great go to post scorer.

Duncan is a guy you can run an offense through. Karl Malone was not used like that. Karl Malone is the NBA version of a bad video game player on Madden. Finds one play that works and uses it to get about 6 yards every time. But when its late in the 4th and its 3rd and 9 hes forced to stick with what he knows and loses if the defense is half good.

Karl Malone scored off running the floor, easy baskets from Stockton, drawing contact on those finds and getting to the line, and later in his career his one move...

Get the ball from about 14 feet...look over his right shoulder...turn and shoot. Or maybe if hes feeling varied face up and look at the floor in front of the defender then rise up and shoot.

He had no go to post moves to get a high percentage shot. He was predictable. And predictable scorers often fail in the clutch because they dont have a plan B. I remember in 98 when MJ stole that ball from him before the title winning shot Karl had stood there doing his one move. He got it and looked over his shoulder as always and got owned by his one(lonely) defensive move. A blindsde swipe in the post.

You give him the ball thats all he can do. Look over his shoulder or face up and throw 2 jab steps to see if the defender bites. If not its a jumper. There is no feeding him in the post and watching him get his shot with moves and counter moves. No splitting the double for the lean in bank shot. No up and under. Not even a jump hook. Karl is that rare offensive player who would have been a better scorer had he developed skills that probably lower his PPG. Give Karl Malone Duncans skills down low and he doesnt rely on John as much. Likely ends up with less points and would have been played off of by his teammates more. But the points he did give would be points he could give you anytime. Points he could pour in in the clutch since he wouldnt need anyone else to help. Wouldnt need to go to the same move the defense had watched him do for 10 years. A more skilled Malone scores a little less but I think scores more when it matters.

Malone was hard to stop just like those bad Madden players with one play that works. But just like them...when you need more than that one play can give....he fails to deliver. Especially if its on Sunday....

Last edited by Kblaze8855 : 07-08-2007 at 03:12 PM.
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Old 07-08-2007, 05:36 PM   #67
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Default Re: Official #17 NBA Player Of All Time According To ISH

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kblaze8855
Elite like Miachel, Kareem, and Wilt at the top of their games? No. But Tim at the top of his game and Karl at the top of his....Tim is both a better offensive and defensive player. More individually dominant. Easily. The 4 rings dont hurt either for the "Legacy matters most" types.

I really see no comparison between the two. Tim is on a different level. Not different like Jordan to John Starks. But a difference like Jordan to Clyde Drexler or Nique.

I'm just saying, Duncan actually has the worst stats out of everyone voted on this list so far. Hondo, West, Moses, Baylor etc all had FAR superior stats. Moses Malone even has the accomplishments that equal those of Duncan. I think there is a huge double standard concerning Duncan. He always gets excused for his "bad" stats with his impact, but those guys had better stats AND about the same impact.
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