Hakeem had the greatest peak play than any other player

[jlauber]

I think the fact that Wilt could average those crazy numbers were a testament of the pace and level of competition back then, not of his ability.

Yep...after all, EVERYONE was doing it back then, right? Funny, I don't see ANY OTHER player with a 50 ppg season (or even a 45 ppg season.) Or a 27.2 rpg season (or another at 27.0 rpg). Or another player with a 50-26 season. Or another player with a .727 or .683 FG% season (and BTW, while pace is held against Wilt...what about him, and him alone, outshooting entire leagues by .244 and even .271?!) Or leading the league in SCORING, REBOUNDING, AND FG% in the SAME SEASON....THREE TIMES. Or leading the league in SCORING and REBOUNDING in the SAME SEASON...FIVE times. Or leading the NBA in REBOUNDING AND FG%...EIGHT TIMES. Or LEADING the NBA in 70% of their ENTIRE STATISTICAL categories in the SAME SEASON (15 of 22 in '62-63.) Or winning scoring titles by +18.8 (and another at +10.8 ppg.)

He accomplished these and the rest of his 130 NBA records against players like Bellamy, Lovellette, Embry, Reed, Lanier, Hayes, Unseld, Cowens, Thurmond, Russell, and Kareem...ALL in the HOF.

Yep...everyone else was doing it back then...

[iamgine]

I didn't say everyone else was doing it, in fact I said the opposite...reading comprehension problem?

[jlauber]

Who the f*ck cares about Wilt here? Damn it, I'm sick of all those stupid long ass paragraphs by jlauber to vindicate Wilt.

And what a STUPID response on YOUR part. Just what the hell was the OP here??? A RIDICULOUS OP claimed that Hakeem had the greatest peak player of ANY OTHER PLAYER. I merely pointed out that Hakeem's peak play PALES in comparison to Wilt's.

And then I SUPPORTED my take...unlike YOU!

[Inactive]

Who the f*ck cares about Wilt here? Damn it, I'm sick of all those stupid long ass paragraphs by jlauber to vindicate Wilt.

So, don't read them. I think it's great that there's someone who doesn't just go along with the accepted narrative, and fills his posts with information. Even if you think Wilt would be a scrub in today's league, it doesn't hurt to be reminded (or taught) of how dominant he was in the past.

[Rose]

Well Hakeem is probably my favorite all time player...No

[jlauber]

I didn't say everyone else was doing it, in fact I said the opposite...reading comprehension problem?

I have already DESTROYED the "pace" theories here MANY times. As for Wilt being LIGHT YEARS ahead of his peers..SO WHAT? Wilt was FAR more dominant against HIS peers, than Hakeem was against his. So, no matter what CRITERIA is used...Wilt had a FAR greater PEAK AND CAREER.

[iamgine]

Umm, you only destroyed it in your own mind maybe?

Yes Wilt had fared crazy numbers against his peers, that's also in my post. Reading comprehension sir.

[Fatal9]

That's nice but a lot of what happened could only happen in a certain setting which the early 60s provided. lol @ completely ignoring the different setting the two players played in. In the early 60s, the pace of the league was ridiculous which allowed Wilt to shoot 40 fukking times a game, the league was 70% white (this is a fact, not an estimate) with a lot of stiffs from the 50s crossing over (prime time for someone to be completely ahead of their time), the lane was narrower in his 40+ ppg seasons, you'd need to be playing 45+ minutes even in blowouts (like Wilt) and many stars from the era averaged that many minutes, and on and on and on. Strong logic @ comparing raw stats for raw stats across eras that were so different.

But anyways...

Get back to me when Wilt leads his team to a championship as the leading scorer on his own team in the playoffs.

Get back to me when Wilt routinely raised his game in the playoffs like Hakeem (lol @ mr. GOAT scorer averaging 22 ppg on 52 TS% in the playoffs).

Get back to me when Wilt comes BACK from 3-1 deficits instead of blowing 3-1 leads.

Get back to me when Hakeem is on a 31 win team in his prime in a season he played every game and was healthy (seriously lol @ this, so much for his stats, can't see any other top 10 player on a team that bad especially with couple of other all-stars there with him).

Get back to me when Hakeem's teammates are praising the lord that he got traded because he held them back.

Get back to me when Hakeem is leading a team to the worst record in the league which eventually leads to him getting traded for scrubs.

Get back to me when Hakeem plays on teams that were capable of winning 50+ without him (like Wilt in late 60s) and STILL not winning.

So on and so on. Sorry, you can keep your FG% titles. Wilt btw would purposely not shoot against certain centers to keep his FG% up. But I want an assassin like Hakeem on my team, who at his peak did it all (great scoring, passing, defense all simultaneously), not give you one extreme or the other. There's no question about how well Hakeem's game translates to nowadays either, Wilt meanwhile looks awkward as hell dribbling the ball on his post ups from every game I've seen.

[Fatal9]

Right, pace has no effect on his numbers. I'm sure Wilt could average 40 shot attempts and 17 FTs in current conditions. Or how all the 20+ rpg rebounders died as the game slowed down more and more (definitely just a coincidence ).

[jlauber]

Umm, you only destroyed it in your own mind maybe?

Yes Wilt had fared crazy numbers against his peers, that's also in my post. Reading comprehension sir.

And I already addressed this. Wilt's 130+ records that he achieved in his career, came against the likes, Bellamy, Embry, Lovellette, Reed, Lucas, Unseld, Hayes, Lanier, Cowens, Thurmond, McAdoo, Russell, and Kareem. ALL in the HOF. (And he dominated the 7-2 Artis Gilmore, and at age 35, in the '72 ABA-NBA All-Star game.) BTW, you can add an inch to an inch-and-a-half to almost all of the above players,...all of whom were measured in bare feet. So, Bellamy, Thurmond, and Lanier all would have been over 7-0. And we KNOW that Kareem and Gilmore were 7-2+...and even taller in shoes.

[ShaqAttack3234]

That's nice but a lot of what happened could only happen in a certain setting which the early 60s provided. lol @ completely ignoring the different setting the two players played in. In the early 60s, the pace of the league was ridiculous which allowed Wilt to shoot 40 fukking times a game, the league was 70% white (this is a fact, not an estimate) with a lot of stiffs from the 50s crossing over (prime time for someone to be completely ahead of their time), the lane was narrower in his 40+ ppg seasons, you'd need to be playing 45+ minutes even in blowouts (like Wilt) and many stars from the era averaged that many minutes, and on and on and on. Strong logic @ comparing raw stats for raw stats across eras that were so different.

But anyways...

Get back to me when Wilt leads his team to a championship as the leading scorer on his own team in the playoffs.

Get back to me when Wilt routinely raised his game in the playoffs like Hakeem (lol @ mr. GOAT scorer averaging 22 ppg on 52 TS% in the playoffs).

Get back to me when Wilt comes BACK from 3-1 deficits instead of blowing 3-1 leads.

Get back to me when Hakeem is on a 31 win team in his prime in a season he played every game and was healthy (seriously lol @ this, so much for his stats, can't see any other top 10 player on a team that bad especially with couple of other all-stars there with him).

Get back to me when Hakeem's teammates are praising the lord that he got traded because he held them back.

Get back to me when Hakeem is leading a team to the worst record in the league which eventually leads to him getting traded for scrubs.

Get back to me when Hakeem plays on teams that were capable of winning 50+ without him (like Wilt in late 60s) and STILL not winning.

So on and so on. Sorry, you can keep your FG% titles. Wilt btw would purposely not shoot against certain centers to keep his FG% up. But I want an assassin like Hakeem on my team, who at his peak did it all (great scoring, passing, defense all simultaneously), not give you one extreme or the other. There's no question about how well Hakeem's game translates to nowadays either, Wilt meanwhile looks awkward as hell dribbling the ball on his post ups from every game I've seen.

I think that just about covers it.

[juju151111]

That's nice but a lot of what happened could only happen in a certain setting which the early 60s provided. lol @ completely ignoring the different setting the two players played in. In the early 60s, the pace of the league was ridiculous which allowed Wilt to shoot 40 fukking times a game, the league was 70% white (this is a fact, not an estimate) with a lot of stiffs from the 50s crossing over (prime time for someone to be completely ahead of their time), the lane was narrower in his 40+ ppg seasons, you'd need to be playing 45+ minutes even in blowouts (like Wilt) and many stars from the era averaged that many minutes, and on and on and on. Strong logic @ comparing raw stats for raw stats across eras that were so different.

But anyways...

Get back to me when Wilt leads his team to a championship as the leading scorer on his own team in the playoffs.

Get back to me when Wilt routinely raised his game in the playoffs like Hakeem (lol @ mr. GOAT scorer averaging 22 ppg on 52 TS% in the playoffs).

Get back to me when Wilt comes BACK from 3-1 deficits instead of blowing 3-1 leads.

Get back to me when Hakeem is on a 31 win team in his prime in a season he played every game and was healthy (seriously lol @ this, so much for his stats, can't see any other top 10 player on a team that bad especially with couple of other all-stars there with him).

Get back to me when Hakeem's teammates are praising the lord that he got traded because he held them back.

Get back to me when Hakeem is leading a team to the worst record in the league which eventually leads to him getting traded for scrubs.

Get back to me when Hakeem plays on teams that were capable of winning 50+ without him (like Wilt in late 60s) and STILL not winning.

So on and so on. Sorry, you can keep your FG% titles. Wilt btw would purposely not shoot against certain centers to keep his FG% up. But I want an assassin like Hakeem on my team, who at his peak did it all (great scoring, passing, defense all simultaneously), not give you one extreme or the other. There's no question about how well Hakeem's game translates to nowadays either, Wilt meanwhile looks awkward as hell dribbling the ball on his post ups from every game I've seen.

[iamgine]

Just because someone's in the HOF, don't mean they're good. Wasn't that guy who could dribble only with right hand in the HOF too? And that's one of the best player, imagine the rest of them.

Like I said, the fact that Wilt could average those crazy numbers were a testament of the pace and level of competition back then, not of his ability.

[Dbrog]

Honestly...Shaq's peak was better than Hakeem's. Btw, anyone who thinks Hakeem is in any way better than Wilt should just stop watching basketball. Wilt basically IS a 7'1" rich-mans Hakeem!

[jlauber]

That's nice but a lot of what happened could only happen in a certain setting which the early 60s provided. lol @ completely ignoring the different setting the two players played in. In the early 60s, the pace of the league was ridiculous which allowed Wilt to shoot 40 fukking times a game, the league was 70% white (this is a fact, not an estimate) with a lot of stiffs from the 50s crossing over (prime time for someone to be completely ahead of their time), the lane was narrower in his 40+ ppg seasons, you'd need to be playing 45+ minutes even in blowouts (like Wilt) and many stars from the era averaged that many minutes, and on and on and on. Strong logic @ comparing raw stats for raw stats across eras that were so different.

Yep... 118.8 ppg in Wilt's 50.4 ppg scoring season...109.9 ppg in MJ's 37.1 ppg season. And Chamberlain averaging 39 ppg at the halfway point of the '65 season, in a league with a WIDENED lane...(and then averaging 33.5 ppg on .540 shooting the very next season...in a league that shot .433.)

Or Wilt averaging 24.1 ppg, 24.3 rpg, 7.8 apg, and shooting .683 in the '67 season, in a nine team league that had Zelmo Beatty (a Five time all-star), Willis Reed, Nate Thurmond, Walt Bellamy, and Bill Russell (as well as Jerry Lucas and Wayne Embry)...ALL but Beatty in the HOF.

And Wilt playing 45 mpg...over the course of his ENTIRE CAREER...and an even more remarkable 47.2 mpg over the course of his ENTIRE 160 post-season games.

Get back to me when Wilt leads his team to a championship as the leading scorer on his own team in the playoffs.

Well, he did LEAD TWO of his TEAMs to WORLD titles. Not sure what the relevance of that is. He LED his team's in scoring in his post-season career, and with pathetic rosters, SIX times....FOUR of them at 33+. Of course, he LED his team in REBOUNDING EVERY post-season he played. Unlike Hakeem.

Get back to me when Wilt routinely raised his game in the playoffs like Hakeem (lol @ mr. GOAT scorer averaging 22 ppg on 52 TS% in the playoffs).

Interesting...how many 33.0 ppg post-seasons did Hakeem have? How many 39 ppg post-season series did Hakeem have? How many 50+ point games (and two of them in ELIMINATION games...and two more on top of that) did Hakeem have? How many 45-27 games did Hakeem have in his Finals?

Get back to me when Wilt comes BACK from 3-1 deficits instead of blowing 3-1 leads.

Chamberlain, on ONE-LEG, did LEAD his team back from a 3-1 series deficit in the '70 playoffs. And in the ONLY series in which his TEAM lost a 3-1 edge, they were without HOF Cunningham for the ENTIRE series. Then Luke Jackson AND Wali Jones were injured in game five, as well as Wilt NOTICEABLY LIMPING from game three thru game seven (nope...no coincidence there that they then lost a 3-1 series lead.)

Get back to me when Hakeem is on a 31 win team in his prime in a season he played every game and was healthy (seriously lol @ this, so much for his stats, can't see any other top 10 player on a team that bad especially with couple of other all-stars there with him).

Yep ...the WORST roster in NBA history. How bad was that roster (which had 16 different players, several of whom never played again)? Their new coach in the following season held a scrimmage with those players and against rookies and scrubs...and they LOST. Of course Fecal fails to mention another FACT...that Wilt then took that same basic laughingstock roster to a 48-32 record, and into the Finals that very NEXT season.

Of course, it was WILT's fault that they went 31-49, right? After all, he LED the NBA in FIFTEEN of the 22 statistical categories...including scoring and by a 10.8 margin, rebounding, FG% (a nw record at the time...which he would shatter THREE more times) WIN-SHARES, and a PER of 31.8 which is STILL the all-time record. BTW, while Wilt shot .528, his teammates collectively shot .412. Oh, with that cast of clowns, they had a -2.1 scoring differential, and lost 35 games by single digits. And they were only involved in eight 20+ games all-season, going 4-4. Furthermore, Wilt's team went 1-8 against the Celtics and their NINE HOFErs (without a single one on his own team), and lost six of them by single digits. And all Wilt did in those nine games was to outscore Russell, per game, 38-14.

Get back to me when Hakeem's teammates are praising the lord that he got traded because he held them back

Give me those examples of players that Wilt "held back." Maybe Cunningham, who was a SIXTH man in Philly, or Walker, who was their FOURTH option. Maybe Thurmond, who was a rookie with Wilt, playing part-time and out of position (and like he would ever have been better than Wilt on the same team.) Maybe Baylor, who was already on the decline by the time Wilt arrived...and he played AWFUL even while Wilt was sacrificing HIS scoring. West had his greatest seasons with Wilt. Goodrich...best season ever with Wilt. Even your goofball "all-star" Meschery had his CAREER best season with Wilt. As did "HOFer" Gola.

That list is pretty short.

Get back to me when Hakeem is leading a team to the worst record in the league which eventually leads to him getting traded for scrubs

He was traded" from the Warriors, and they went 17-63. Meanwhile, Wilt took a team that had been 34-46 the year before, to a 40-40 record, and then a game seven, one-point loss against the 62-18 Celtics. THEN, he LED the Sixers to the BEST record in the league over the course of each of the nest three seasons, including a 68-13 team that won a dominating title...and STILL holds the team record for best record.

And, after he FORCED his "trade" from the Sixers, he IMMEDIATELY led LA to their best ever record in Los Angeles...FOUR Finals in his FIVE seasons (and a WCF's in the other,... withOUT BOTH Baylor and West BTW), including a 69-13 mark in '72, which is STILL a team record. BTW, Philly got progressively WORSE every season after that trade, and by Wilt's last season in the league, they had plummetted to a 9-73 record.

Incidently, in Wilt's first season in LA, he REPLACED a TOTAL of 42 ppg and 18 rpg...and even with West missing 20 games...they still posted that best ever record....which they would break again in '72.

Get back to me when Hakeem plays on teams that were capable of winning 50+ without him (like Wilt in late 60s) and STILL not winning.

That ONE team that Wilt left that won 55 games, came in a trade for THREE players, who not only had averaged 29 ppg and 15.1 rpg...BUT they then averaged 37.7 ppg and 20.2 rpg collectively in the post-season...and were WIPED out by a 48-34 Celtic team, 4-1, in the FIRST ROUND. Just the year before, the 62-20 Sixers, with FOUR of their starters playing INJURED (and one of them not playing at all)...lost a game seven in the ECF's by four points. And, of course, the year before that they had gone 68-13 and won a dominating title.

BTW, Hakeem played on 42-40 teams. And THREE of his team's lost to lower seeds. But the most GLARING stat...EIGHT FIRS-ROUND exits in 15 playoff seasons, over HALF.

So on and so on. Sorry, you can keep your FG% titles. Wilt btw would purposely not shoot against certain centers to keep his FG% up. But I want an assassin like Hakeem on my team, who at his peak did it all (great scoring, passing, defense all simultaneously), not give you one extreme or the other. There's no question about how well Hakeem's game translates to nowadays either, Wilt meanwhile looks awkward as hell dribbling the ball on his post ups from every game I've seen.

Chamberlain was the best defensive player in the league in '67 and '68, while averaging 24.1 ppg, 24.2 rpg, 7.8 apg and shooting .683 in one season...and then 24.3 ppg, 23.8 rpg, 8.6 apg (and LEADING the league) and shooting
.595 in the other.

And not sure what footage YOU were looking at (if ANY.) Maybe in his LAST season, at age 36, when he was voted FIRST-TEAM All-Defense, LED the NBA in rebounding (and then averaged 22.5 rpg over the course of his 17 post-season games...in a league that averaged 51.6 rpg), AND set a FG% mark of .727. How was Hakeem doing at age 36 BTW...especially in the post-season, when he averaged 13.3 ppg, 7.3 rpg (a good QUARTER for Wilt even in his LAST season), and on .426 shooting. AND, at age 35 Wilt was, by virtually ALL accounts, outplaying a PRIME Kareem, and then leading his Lakers to a title...and winning the Finals MVP in the process.