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View Poll Results: Whose performance was worse?
Giannis 19' ECF vs. Champs - 23/14/6 on 44.8 fg.. 23.7% on jumpers 8 57.14%
Lebron 07' Finals vs. Champs - 22/7/6 on 35.6 fg.. 17.9% on jumpers 6 42.86%
Voters: 14. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 08-18-2019, 05:00 PM   #31
Kblaze8855
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Default Re: 19' Giannis vs. 07' Lebron

The way you evaluate players is so funny at times.

If youre a scout for a team and youre sent to watch a couple guys they have to choose between....you come back and tell them "Neither guy knows how to win" and think thats an evaluation? Maybe if your point is....take neither. But if youre asked to recommend one...you do a bit better than that right?
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Old 08-18-2019, 05:22 PM   #32
3ball
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Default Re: 19' Giannis vs. 07' Lebron

No high school or college kid "knows how to win" in the NBA anyway, because it's a different game - history shows that it takes most players 2-5 years to "learn how to win" in the NBA

Lebron, Durant, Giannis, Curry, etc missed the playoffs their first few years, while MJ wasn't competitive in the 1st Round at that career stage.

But great players learn

In MJ and Lebron's case - by each guy's 3rd healthy season (88' and 06'), they could carry weak casts to good records and high seeds.. Or deep runs with underdogs by their 4th healthy season (89' and 07')...

But it still took several more seasons after that before they win rings (91' Jordan, 12' Lebron), with MJ developing his champion, and Lebron's skillset needing to form a ready-made one..

But regardless, Lebron clearly didn't know how to play championship basketball in 09' and hadn't won yet, so there isn't a non-subjective argument for 09' lebron over 19' Giannis.. the stats are about the same
.

Last edited by 3ball : 08-18-2019 at 05:29 PM.
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Old 08-18-2019, 05:29 PM   #33
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Default Re: 19' Giannis vs. 07' Lebron

Quote:
Originally Posted by 3ball
Lebron doesn't have good form

- his elbow is out

- his touch is poor (occasionally shoots knuckballs with poor rotation)

- releases the ball off his middle and ring finger too much, instead of index finger

- his follow-throughs are forced and mechanical; it isn't a loose, natural motion for him, like Curry or MJ or other pure shooters.. maybe his arm is too muscular and suited for football more than basketball

- the ball gets in the way of his face, which forces awkward-angled fadeaways that aren't that accurate and have little or no elevation - like an old-school set shot

- his footwork isn't polished, which leads to less fluid jumpshooting and less capacity for attempts overall (less ways to get off a jumper than say, Kobe)


His form simply can't be called "good", unless we're only comparing him to bad shooters .



His form is nice for his size...

He does have a fluid full body release.. the form was never the problem.

Lebron shoots it better than karl malone did.. he just get shook from time to time.

Then again, so did Karl.

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Old 08-18-2019, 05:43 PM   #34
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Default Re: 19' Giannis vs. 07' Lebron

U smoking weed? Lebron ecf vs giannis ecf. Lebron more clutch. Sigh. People forget greatness and they need to be reminded over and over.
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Old 08-18-2019, 05:44 PM   #35
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Default Re: 19' Giannis vs. 07' Lebron

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kblaze8855
The way you evaluate players is so funny at times.

If youre a scout for a team and youre sent to watch a couple guys they have to choose between....you come back and tell them "Neither guy knows how to win" and think thats an evaluation? Maybe if your point is....take neither. But if youre asked to recommend one...you do a bit better than that right?
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Old 08-18-2019, 05:53 PM   #36
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Default Re: 19' Giannis vs. 07' Lebron

Quote:
Originally Posted by tpols
His form is nice for his size...

He does have a fluid full body release.. the form was never the problem.

Lebron shoots it better than karl malone did.. he just get shook from time to time.

Then again, so did Karl.

Karl shoots better from mid-range

In 1998, he was 383/797 on 48.1% from mid-range - the best lebron ever shot from mid-range was 44.6% (218/487)

Karl was also 45.9% efg on all his jumpers that year, which would rank 3rd in Lebron's career

Again, for lebron's position (great perimeter scorer/ball-handler), his form isn't "good"
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Old 08-18-2019, 05:59 PM   #37
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Default Re: 19' Giannis vs. 07' Lebron

At the same age Giannis was in 2019, lebron averaged 35/9/7 on 55% for his entire playoff run. Just saying.
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Old 08-18-2019, 06:05 PM   #38
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Default Re: 19' Giannis vs. 07' Lebron

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turbo Slayer
U smoking weed? Lebron ecf vs giannis ecf. Lebron more clutch. Sigh. People forget greatness and they need to be reminded over and over.
Lebron's 07' ECF wasn't against the champs, while Giannis' 19' ECF was against the champs

Why take credit for facing a weaker opponent??? That's why we've only compared performances against champions itt, so we can compare the stats directly

And it's clear that 19' Giannis played better against the champs than 07' or 08' Lebron'

On a sidenote, look at the closeout game of the 07' ECF - the score was tied heading into the 4th, but then Boobie Gibson scored 19 pts to Lebron's 8 and saved the Cavs.. MJ never had a teammate dominate the 4th while he lays an egg in any playoff game
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Old 08-18-2019, 06:14 PM   #39
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Default Re: 19' Giannis vs. 07' Lebron

Quote:
Originally Posted by AussieSteve
At the same age Giannis was in 2019, lebron averaged 35/9/7 on 55% for his entire playoff run. Just saying.
Giannis was doing that until the Raps shut him down - no different from an older lebron getting shut down by the Mavs in 11', or infact numerous of series until he finally started winning in 2012 (08' ECSF, 10' ECF).

So the stats are the same and since neither guy knew how to win, 09' Lebron is equal to 19' Giannis, not better...

Remember, the talent levels were close in the 09' ECF and the Cavs were heavy favorites - but Lebron simply pulled a classic case of getting stats without good team basketball where the ball moves instead of sticks

The ball stuck for the Cavs, so they underperformed and lost a series that they were supposed to win..
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Old 08-18-2019, 06:16 PM   #40
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Default Re: 19' Giannis vs. 07' Lebron

Quote:
Originally Posted by 3ball
On a sidenote, look at the closeout game of the 07' ECF - the score was tied heading into the 4th, but then Boobie Gibson scored 19 pts to Lebron's 8 and saved the Cavs.. MJ never had a teammate dominate the 4th while he lays an egg in any playoff game

Cavs had the lead.
They won by 16.

Saved lol.
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Old 08-18-2019, 06:17 PM   #41
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Default Re: 19' Giannis vs. 07' Lebron

Quote:
Originally Posted by 3ball
Giannis was doing that until the Raps shut him down - no different from an older lebron getting shut down by the Mavs in 11', or infact numerous of series until he finally started winning in 2012 (08' ECSF, 10' ECF).

So the stats are the same and since neither guy knew how to win, 09' Lebron is equal to 19' Giannis, not better...

Remember, the talent levels were close in the 09' ECF and the Cavs were heavy favorites - but Lebron simply pulled a classic case of getting stats without good team basketball where the ball moves instead of sticks

The ball stuck for the Cavs, so they underperformed and lost a series that they were supposed to win..
Sounds like Jordan pre '91

And btw, Giannis averaged 27/11/4 in the first two rounds, not even CLOSE to '09 LeBron
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Old 08-18-2019, 06:18 PM   #42
3ball
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Default Re: 19' Giannis vs. 07' Lebron

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigkingsfan
Cavs had the lead.
They won by 16.

Saved lol.
Cavs were leading by 1 point heading into the 4th

Then Boobie scores 19, and lebron scores 8 on 2-6.

Boobie clearly saved the Cavs by dominating the 4th... No teammate ever did that for Jordan, let alone the 64th best teammate he ever played with ..
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Old 08-18-2019, 06:23 PM   #43
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Default Re: 19' Giannis vs. 07' Lebron

Self ownage
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3ball
Cavs were leading by 1 point heading into the 4th
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3ball
the score was tied heading into the 4th

Sounds like Legoat making his teammates better instead of ball hogging like Ordan.
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Old 08-18-2019, 06:36 PM   #44
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Default Re: 19' Giannis vs. 07' Lebron

OP can't resist having his troll meltdowns even when he makes a decent initial post every once in a while.

Would like to see a clinical/psyche evaluation done on him, would be hilarious to see his brain not being able to resist his 42 year old adult love for MJ.
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Old 08-18-2019, 06:54 PM   #45
3ball
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Default Re: 19' Giannis vs. 07' Lebron

Quote:
Originally Posted by SouBeachTalents

Sounds like Jordan pre '91

No, Jordan had underdogs pre-91, not big favorites with equal or better talent like 09' lebron

And heading into the 1991 season, the Bulls were still underdogs, while the Pistons remained much more talented - the Bulls had to overcome a much more talented team to make the Finals.. The Pistons had 3x all-stars at 5 spots versus the Bulls 2 all-stars... And the HOF count was 3 to 2 in the Pistons favor..

It's like a bottom-dweller like the Phoenix Suns developing and beating the much more talented Warriors dynasty.. Similarly, for the Bulls to make the 91' Finals, they had to beat a dynasty that was much more talented and infact favored to 3-peat.


Quote:
Originally Posted by SouBeachTalents

And btw, Giannis averaged 27/11/4 in the first two rounds, not even CLOSE to '09 LeBron


Sure but Giannis' stats are better than what lebron did other years, and Giannis uses his teammates better:

Time of Possession

Giannis 19' Playoffs - 4.4 minutes
Lebron 18' Playoffs - 9.6 minutes

(Time of possession stats don't exist for 09')
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