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Old 08-17-2007, 04:46 AM   #136
Admiral
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Default Re: Bill Simmons: "96 Bulls are not a top-10 All-time and are worse than the '01 Lake

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Originally Posted by Glove_20
Yeah I would also put the 96 Bulls as the Greatest Team of All-Time. They were amazing that year.


And really, Payton really did a great job on Jordan. Jordan shot 42% for the series, but when Gary Payton was the primary Defender on Jordan, Jordan shot only 39%. I believe without Gary on Jordan, Jordan shot almost 50%.
Seattle had great overall perimeter defense to help out Payton, but overall, it was Payton's main defender and he did a terrific job slowing down Michael Jordan.


And really, the Sonics had a shot to win the series as well. The Bulls weren't playing their best that series, if the Sonics had brought their best game in, they would've won the series. However, the Sonics didn't, they played neutral.

And even though the Bulls were up 3-0, after it got 3-2, the pressure actually did reach the Bulls. Even all over the media everyone was getting tensed up for the Bulls. So it wasn't easy all along type series for the Bulls.


so if the sonics had played their best, they would have beaten the greatest team of all time? wouldn't that make THEM the greatest team of all time? and really...doesn't a GOAT team have to bring their best in order to be considered as such? otherwise, a team who is GOAT would be unbeatable in a debate under the "didn't bring their best game" argument...

not tryin to start anything...the logic just seems a little condradictory
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Old 08-17-2007, 05:08 AM   #137
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Default Re: Bill Simmons: "96 Bulls are not a top-10 All-time and are worse than the '01 Lakers"

The 1995-96 Orlando Magic if they were in the NBA right now, IMO would've beat the Spurs or Cavs (or anyone else) decidedly IMO and won the title easily if you put them in 2007 NBA.

Penny would average at least Wade like numbers in the modern NBA (breathe on a 2-guard ... foul) and Duncan would not be able to stop even a 1996-era Shaq (too big ... Shaq actually was in shape and could jump back then).

And the '96 Bulls *swept* that team. So I dunno what that says about the NBA today.

I'd say bull**** on the 90s being weak. Today's NBA is weak. No one plays defense and there are big men that really dominate the paint every night anymore.
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Old 08-17-2007, 05:21 AM   #138
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Default Re: Bill Simmons: "96 Bulls are not a top-10 All-time and are worse than the '01 Lake

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Originally Posted by Admiral
so if the sonics had played their best, they would have beaten the greatest team of all time? wouldn't that make THEM the greatest team of all time?

No, it wouldn't. It would simply mean that the Bulls weren't the greatest team of all time. The 1972-73 Boston Celtics won 68 games in the regular season and lost to the New York Knicks in the Eastern Conference Finals, so now you never hear of them when people talk about the greatest single-season teams of all time because they didn't get it done.

Last edited by ThaRegul8r : 08-17-2007 at 05:36 AM.
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Old 08-17-2007, 05:24 AM   #139
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Default Re: Bill Simmons: "96 Bulls are not a top-10 All-time and are worse than the '01 Lakers"

The Bulls manhandled the Sonics to a 3-0 lead, after sweeping Orlando on top of that, I think they just sort of eased off the accelerator a bit. Everyone thought it any team could possibly beat the Bulls it would be Orlando, when they collapsed and then Seattle couldn't even win one of the first three, it was getting ugly.

I remember a lot of people at time in Chicago wanted the Bulls to win the title at home at the United Center, there was almost zero doubt they'd win game six.

I think Jordan's game was a bit off, mentally I think being so close to being back on the mountain maybe started to screw with his head a bit. Winning it on Father's Day .... I'd have to say that was pretty much meant to be.

I'll be honest I think the 1998 Utah Jazz came the closest to beating the Bulls. If Jordan doesn't single handedly win game 6 there ... game 7 ... Pippen hurt, who knows what happens.

Last edited by Soundwave : 08-17-2007 at 05:27 AM.
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Old 08-17-2007, 05:57 AM   #140
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Default Re: Bill Simmons: "96 Bulls are not a top-10 All-time and are worse than the '01 Lake

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Originally Posted by ThaRegul8r
No, it wouldn't. It would simply mean that the Bulls weren't the greatest team of all time. The 1972-73 Boston Celtics won 68 games in the regular season and lost to the New York Knicks in the Eastern Conference Finals, so now you never hear of them when people talk about the greatest single-season teams of all time because they didn't get it done.

i wasn't necessarily claiming them to be the best of all time, i was just saying, glove called them the GOAT but said that, had the sonics played their best, they would have beaten the team he specifically called the GOAT...i don't really think the 96 bulls were the GOAT, but i absolutely think they were top 10 all time, and i think the sonics they played were more debatable about top-10 status than those bulls...that was my point...
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Old 08-17-2007, 08:25 AM   #141
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Default Re: Bill Simmons: "96 Bulls are not a top-10 All-time and are worse than the '01 Lakers"

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Originally Posted by joe
You guys are just so in love with MJ and his legacy that you're afraid to admit that he would ever faulter to any team. you didn't even listen to his arguments, which were basically..

The league was falling apart that year, talent wise. All the good teams were on the downside of their "prime," and MJs bulls were the best team left.

Furthermore, while you're busy defending the greatness of MJ, bill simmons even said that the 92 Bulls were a great team, just that he didn't think the 98 bulls were a top-10 team

You guys are so, so, so competely sickening with your MJ homerism. Just stop, everyone on this site. Just stop.

When someone states that they think MJ's Bulls could be beaten by a Prime-Shaq led Championship team that went 15-1 in a VERY tough western conference finals... and you are actually OFFENDED and say that that person has lost all credibility, i think you need to see a therapist. its very sad, some of the MJ love that goes on here.

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Old 08-17-2007, 09:09 AM   #142
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Default Re: Bill Simmons: "96 Bulls are not a top-10 All-time and are worse than the '01 Lakers"

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Originally Posted by Soundwave
The Bulls manhandled the Sonics to a 3-0 lead, after sweeping Orlando on top of that, I think they just sort of eased off the accelerator a bit. Everyone thought it any team could possibly beat the Bulls it would be Orlando, when they collapsed and then Seattle couldn't even win one of the first three, it was getting ugly.
.

I watched most of that Orl-Bulls series and I still have no clue how Chicago won it. Shaq really was a beast inside and Rodmon, while a good defender, gave up 100lbs on Shaq easily.

They even had plenty of big 2's to matchup with Micheal.

How did that happen?
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Old 08-17-2007, 09:26 AM   #143
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Default Re: Bill Simmons: "96 Bulls are not a top-10 All-time and are worse than the '01 Lake

The 1996 Chicago Bulls are the best team ever.

Michael Jordan is the greatest player of all time.

Why do these threads keep appearing?
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Old 08-17-2007, 12:18 PM   #144
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Default Re: Bill Simmons: "96 Bulls are not a top-10 All-time and are worse than the '01 Lake

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Originally Posted by Admiral
so if the sonics had played their best, they would have beaten the greatest team of all time? wouldn't that make THEM the greatest team of all time? and really...doesn't a GOAT team have to bring their best in order to be considered as such? otherwise, a team who is GOAT would be unbeatable in a debate under the "didn't bring their best game" argument...

not tryin to start anything...the logic just seems a little condradictory

I was just saying the 96 Bulls in the Finals weren't playing their best. And if the Sonics had played their very best they could've beat a 96 Bull team that wasn't playing their best. The Bulls could've played better and the Sonics had a chance to win the series...
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Old 08-17-2007, 12:20 PM   #145
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Default the other six are?

getting back to the original claim, i had to look up what simmons said:

Brian (Worchester): WOAH WOAH WOAH! Are you saying the 1996 Bulls aren't the best team ever? I HATE the Bulls but I still have to respect their alltime greatness!

Bill Simmons: Yes. Emphatically. I think they won the most games ever. I would not have them in the top-10. You're telling me they could have beaten the 2001 Lakers in a series? Or the '86 Celtics? Or the '85 Lakers? or the '83 Sixers? Gimme a break.


he listed FOUR teams that he believes would have beaten the 96 bulls

who are the other SIX that would knock the 96 bulls out of the top ten?
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Old 08-17-2007, 12:37 PM   #146
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Default Re: Bill Simmons: "96 Bulls are not a top-10 All-time and are worse than the '01 Lake

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Originally Posted by WoGiTaLiA1
Chicago went through a better East and then played a real team in the finals to boot. The NBA's decline may have started around 96 but it went into full steam ahead in 99 and has gotten worse with each passing year to the point where the league is pretty much a joke.

The third best team in the East was what the Pacers? Hawks? the Heat? What are you talking about? The East was that good that year at all.

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Old 08-17-2007, 12:50 PM   #147
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Default Re: Bill Simmons: "96 Bulls are not a top-10 All-time and are worse than the '01 Lake

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Originally Posted by Loki
Payton's defense, while huge, was by no means solely responsible for Jordan's shooting in the '96 Finals. He was bricking wide open baseline 17-footers, layups, and offensive putbacks, which are usually automatic for him. His shot was just off the entire series for whatever reason. He wouldn't have shot 50% or anything had he not been ice cold on top of Payton's great defense (and Seattles constant swarming traps on MJ), but I'd say about 45-47% from having watched the series.

Honestly, I wish people would just watch the series rather than assuming that Payton did some sort of job on Jordan. He played excellent defense, probably the best one could. But it was a combination of the constant doubles/traps, Payton's defense, Jordan being ICE cold, and his teammates being ice cold as well, which allowed Seattle to keep pressure on Jordan because no one else was making them pay (Pippen/Kukoc/Kerr were a combined 36% from the field that series). All these things conspired to produce a relatively poor performance (by Jordan's standards).



Yeah, we remember it. 49 followed by 63 followed by a 19 point near triple-double (19/10/9) against a perennial first team defender and the best defensive team in the league, with no help. Sounds like a pretty good series to me.


He's not saying that Payton was the god defensively only that MJ was vulnerable that season which he was.....That makes it even more possible that another team could have beaten them....

To me the 1980 Lakers were too Crazy ...Norm Nixon Jamal Wilkes...Michael Cooper..Did that Have Bob Macadoo yet? Early 80's Laker teams.....Nasty

And 1983 Sixers? Damn serious teams man
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Old 08-17-2007, 03:46 PM   #148
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Default Re: Bill Simmons: "96 Bulls are not a top-10 All-time and are worse than the '01 Lake

i gotcha glove, sorry i misunderstood
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Old 08-18-2007, 12:28 AM   #149
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Default Re: Bill Simmons: "96 Bulls are not a top-10 All-time and are worse than the '01 Lake

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Originally Posted by Glove_20
RBP, Karl put Payton on Jordan primarily from Game 3 and on. So they 2-2 in that stretch.





I've asked you numerous amounts of times if you want links


I've also asked you to check your memory or re watch the series. The Sonics game with a game plan of double teaming Jordan whenever he gets the ball, and having their DPOY guard Pippen. Jordan wasn't stopped Games 1 and 2, so it didn't work. Pippen though was limited to 41%.

So Karl then at Game 3 decided to put Payton on Jordan. And from that point on, Jordan was held to 39% shooting.

thanks for the correction glove20

and another factor was nate mcmillan was back from his injury by game 4 by that time which added a certain emotional lift for the sonics
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Old 08-18-2007, 07:55 PM   #150
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Default Re: Bill Simmons: "96 Bulls are not a top-10 All-time and are worse than the '01 Lake

I can't say the 1996 Chicago Bulls are the best team of all-time. And I think alot of knowledgeable and historic fans of the game would likely disagree with this statement. Growing up in Chicago, as a Bulls fan, the 1996 wasn't the best Bulls team I saw. The best Chicago Bulls teams were either 1991-1992 or 1992-1993. And the latter didn't show it record wise, but when they buckled down and retained focus ... they were the best Bulls team I ever saw take the floor.
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