How come Duncan won throughout his career, MJ didn't make a finals till year seven??

[DonDadda59]

Duncan was drafted by what was essentially a 59-62 win team and perennial contender. Bulls were a 28 win team with no all time greats already on the pay roll.

[ImKobe]

did MJ have Pop and D-Rob(who was 2 years removed from his MVP season) right from the jump?

No?

there you have it.

[jzek]

When Duncan joined the Spurs, they were already a great team - league leaders in wins, reached the conference finals, etc.

It's not like Timmy joined a perennial lottery team and instantly transformed them into contenders.

[warriorfan]

I can't divulge exact figures, but trust me its a pittance.


I deserve a raise.

This is the truth, can we get this man out of Target T's plz?

[Akrazotile]

Duncan was drafted by what was essentially a 59-62 win team and perennial contender. Bulls were a 28 win team with no all time greats already on the pay roll.

Nah nah nah. On this board we measure GOAT status by team achievement and longevity.

Duncan has been taking teams to the finals over his entire 18 year career. Start to finish.

I mean, Shaq gets downgraded for a short peak, right? Dude's peak was top 3 MINIMUM, but nobody has him in the top 3 or GOAT. But his peak definitely was.

Jordan's peak was much, much shorter than Duncan's and he only has 1 more ring. Jordan abandoned his team for two years in the middle of his career.


Let's be real. With the criteria ISH uses on a regular basis to rank guys, Duncan >>> MJ.

[Akrazotile]

This is the truth, can we get this man out of Target T's plz?

Scoreboard

[warriorfan]

Scoreboard

chubby pasty failed actor that looks like rosie odonald and wears target t's



that's what I call lighting up the scoreboard

[Akrazotile]

chubby pasty failed actor that looks like rosie odonald and wears target t's

Amazing to think about how that is enough to make you jealous of my life

That's a baaaad look for you to be bitterly stalking THAT guy.

[sportjames23]

We gon' call MJ the GOAT when he literally couldn't get a team to the finals in his first seven years in the league? It aint like he came right out of high school. He played three years in college. The GOAT couldn't get to the finals till he was 28 years old and paired with Pippen and PJax??

We give MJ credit for a high concentration of chips in a certain time, but then people will downgrade Shaq for lacking longevity. Wassup with that? If we judge the elite by team success, MJ had pretty poor longevity.

He couldn't make a finals till he was 28. He also quit playing basketball for two years still in his prime.

And we gonna call this the GOAT career?


I'm just saying, it's suspect. That's all. It's a little suspect.

Duncan only had to worry about the Lakers in the West (and before Phil came, the Lakers wasted their talent losing to the Jazz and Spurs from 1997 to 1999).

MJ and the Bulls had to deal with Bird's Celtics, a freaking good Bucks team and the Bad Boy Pistons, while fending off Ewing's Knicks, Barkley's Sixers, a damn good Cavs team and Nique's Hawks.

Now, who had the tougher road, OP?

I'm saying your knowledge of NBA history is suspect. That's all. Just a little suspect.

[warriorfan]

Amazing to think about how that is enough to make you jealous of my life

That's a baaaad look for you to be bitterly stalking THAT guy.

Making fun of ur Target T's ≠ Stalking

[Sarcastic]

Nah nah nah. On this board we measure GOAT status by team achievement and longevity.

Duncan has been taking teams to the finals over his entire 18 year career. Start to finish.

I mean, Shaq gets downgraded for a short peak, right? Dude's peak was top 3 MINIMUM, but nobody has him in the top 3 or GOAT. But his peak definitely was.

Jordan's peak was much, much shorter than Duncan's and he only has 1 more ring. Jordan abandoned his team for two years in the middle of his career.


Let's be real. With the criteria ISH uses on a regular basis to rank guys, Duncan >>> MJ.

No it's not. Jordan's peak is just as long, and about 10 times more dominant than Duncan's peak. Duncan's peak ended a long time ago. Just because his team is still winning, does not mean that he is still in his prime nor his peak.

[ClipperRevival]

Because winning right away like Duncan or Magic did is the exception and not the rule for greats. Most greats have to make a steady climb up the mountain and suffer several failures before succeeding.

You won't believe this but at one point, MJ was seen as just a great individual talent who couldn't win. Magic and Bird won rings and were great team players while MJ was the best individual talent. So people always questioned how great he really was.

He suffered many failures at the hands of the Pistons. And frankly, he didn't have much help early in his career. Pip and Grant came aboard a few years into his career and they didn't mature until about 1990 to 1991. And that's when they were making deeper runs in the playoffs. Eventually, they took down Detroit in 1991. And fittingly, beating the guy who many said he couldn't be in Magic and be a winner.

So in some sense, his climb up the mountain makes it somewhat more impressive because it showed that he wasn't perfect from the get go, at least in terms of team accomplishments. But humans love people who can overcome adversity. And MJ did that. But once MJ found out how to win, no one beat him.

[plowking]

Duncan was drafted to a 55 win team already. Maybe that has something to do with it?

[Akrazotile]

Duncan was drafted to a 55 win team already. Maybe that has something to do with it?

So why the double standard?

Guys like Bill Russell and Kobe Bryant get ranked ahead of better actual players based on team achievement.

But when we're comparing consistency between MJ and Duncan suddenly we need to look at who played with what caliber of teammates?

[Akrazotile]

M

No it's not. Jordan's peak is just as long, and about 10 times more dominant than Duncan's peak. Duncan's peak ended a long time ago. Just because his team is still winning, does not mean that he is still in his prime nor his peak.

Uhh, outside of a six year stretch (as an active player) he never reached the finals.


Why do they play bro? Why are the games played? How can you talk about this man's peak being as long as duncans when he only made the finals in a six year window??

Jordan peak wasnt even as long as Shaq's peak. The point of the game is to win. You're only good enough to make a finals for six years of your career and we call that the GOAT? Thats a HORRIBLE peak compared to other greats.

Team achievement. Its that simple. If youre gonna use it, be consistent about it.