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  1. #1
    Free the banned users. stalkerforlife's Avatar
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    Default Props to Pau Gasol thread...

    Easily the best player in the FIBA tournament so far. It seems as though playing for his country, with his brother and friends, has revitalized Pau. Pau started to play like a bitch in the NBA, like he normally does when things don't go his way in life, but he's the MVP of this FIBA tournament and no one can take that away from him.

    I hope Spain beats team USA.

  2. #2
    NBA Legend Hey Yo's Avatar
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    Default Re: Props to Pau Gasol thread...

    There was one???




  3. #3
    big time kobe stan JT123's Avatar
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    Default Re: Props to Pau Gasol thread...

    I thought that for once a Kobe stan was about to thank Pau for Kobe's last 2 rings. I should have known better.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Props to Pau Gasol thread...

    gasol always plays way better with international rules and competition

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Props to Pau Gasol thread...

    Quote Originally Posted by JT123
    I thought that for once a Kobe stan was about to thank Pau for Kobe's last 2 rings. I should have known better.
    gasol was needed. but hes still a bottom 5 lowest ranked 2nd option in championship history

  6. #6
    Curry fam navy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Props to Pau Gasol thread...

    Pau Gasol always been mad underrated. How many other players could beat out Kobe in team winshares?

  7. #7
    Banned 305Baller's Avatar
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    Default Re: Props to Pau Gasol thread...

    Quote Originally Posted by stalkerforlife
    Easily the best player in the FIBA tournament so far. It seems as though playing for his country, with his brother and friends, has revitalized Pau. Pau started to play like a bitch in the NBA, like he normally does when things don't go his way in life, but he's the MVP of this FIBA tournament and no one can take that away from him.

    I hope Spain beats team USA.

  8. #8
    big time kobe stan JT123's Avatar
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    Default Re: Props to Pau Gasol thread...

    Quote Originally Posted by kennethgriffin
    gasol was needed. but hes still a bottom 5 lowest ranked 2nd option in championship history
    If that is the case, 2013 Wade is a bottom 3 lowest ranked 2nd option. Wade averaged less than 16 ppg in the 2013 playoffs. Gasol was NEVER that bad in 09 or 10.

  9. #9
    Free the banned users. stalkerforlife's Avatar
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    Default Re: Props to Pau Gasol thread...

    Quote Originally Posted by navy
    Pau Gasol always been mad underrated. How many other players could beat out Kobe in team winshares?
    I have no clue what that means and neither do you.

    It is an arbitrary stat made up by a stat geek to seek out drones, such as yourself, to worship.

  10. #10
    Curry fam navy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Props to Pau Gasol thread...

    Quote Originally Posted by stalkerforlife
    I have no clue what that means and neither do you.

    It is an arbitrary stat made up by a stat geek to seek out drones, such as yourself, to worship.
    http://www.basketball-reference.com/about/ws.html


  11. #11
    sahelanthropus fpliii's Avatar
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    Default Re: Props to Pau Gasol thread...

    Quote Originally Posted by stalkerforlife
    I have no clue what that means and neither do you.

    It is an arbitrary stat made up by a stat geek to seek out drones, such as yourself, to worship.
    It's a rubbish stat, just like PER. Both are just linear weight summations from box scores, that provide no new information.

    Hollinger (PER) and Oliver (win shares) are both smart guys, but they tell us nothing about what actually went on that we can't ascertain from a box score (and both guys have used more sophisticated metrics in their work for teams; these are simplistic stats for public consumption).

    RAPM is a much better metric (and one that Front Offices actually use and value), based on play-by-plays, and actually derived from scoring margin (which is the point of the game). During their three Finals runs (both guys were major contributors, so they're somewhat comparable; inb4 some fool tries to mention a role player's RAPM in a failed attempt to discredit the stat):

    08: Kobe 4.51 Pau 3.48
    09: Kobe 5.11 Pau 2.64
    10: Kobe 4.47 Pau 1.13

    BTW stats-for-the-nba.appspot.com is not a reliable source for RAPM...it uses box score elements to create a blended metric. The following are reliable sources:

    http://www.gotbuckets.com/ (97-00)
    http://ascreamingcomesacrossthecourt.blogspot.com/ (08-14)
    https://sites.google.com/site/rapmstats/ (only 03-07, since 01 and 02 have incomplete datasets; use GotBuckets for later seasons)

  12. #12
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    Default Re: Props to Pau Gasol thread...

    Quote Originally Posted by JT123
    If that is the case, 2013 Wade is a bottom 3 lowest ranked 2nd option. Wade averaged less than 16 ppg in the 2013 playoffs. Gasol was NEVER that bad in 09 or 10.
    its not always about production over a span of 4-7 games

    i go based on the level the player cemented historically

    thats more telling of the help one guy had. cause anyone can just show up for a few games. and sometimes that player is good only cause theyre on the court with that other #1 guy


    lets look at championship second options out of top 10 players all time ( assuming lebron eventually joins this group )

    shall we?


    Jordan: Pippen = top 25 all time
    kareem: magicoscar = top 5 all time, top 12 all time
    russell: havlicek,cousy = top 20 all time, top 25 all time
    wilt: west, greer = top 13 all time, top 50 all time
    magic: kareem, worthy = top 3 all time, top 50 all time
    shaq: kobe = top 5 all time
    bird: mchale = top 30 all time
    duncan: robinson, parker, ginobili = top 25 all time, top 50 all time, top 60 all time
    lebron: wade = top 30 all time




    and then theres...

    Kobe: Pau = top 90-100 all time




    notice a difference?

  13. #13
    sahelanthropus fpliii's Avatar
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    Default Re: Props to Pau Gasol thread...

    Quote Originally Posted by kennethgriffin
    its not always about production over a span of 4-7 games

    i go based on the level the player cemented historically

    thats more telling of the help one guy had. cause anyone can just show up for a few games. and sometimes that player is good only cause theyre on the court with that other #1 guy


    lets look at championship second options out of top 10 players all time ( assuming lebron eventually joins this group )

    shall we?


    Jordan: Pippen = top 25 all time
    kareem: magicoscar = top 5 all time, top 12 all time
    russell: havlicek,cousy = top 20 all time, top 25 all time
    wilt: west, greer = top 13 all time, top 50 all time
    magic: kareem, worthy = top 3 all time, top 50 all time
    shaq: kobe = top 5 all time
    [COLOR="Red"]bird: mchale = top 30 all time[/COLOR]
    duncan: robinson, [COLOR="red"]parker[/COLOR], ginobili = top 25 all time, [COLOR="red"]top 50 all time[/COLOR], top 60 all time
    lebron: wade = top 30 all time




    and then theres...

    Kobe: Pau = top 90-100 all time




    notice a difference?
    McHale is top 30 all-time, and Parker is top 50 all-time?

    Don't get me wrong griff, I agree with your larger point. But I think you're overrating those two guys a bit.

  14. #14
    NBA Legend kuniva_dAMiGhTy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Props to Pau Gasol thread...

    Quote Originally Posted by fpliii
    It's a rubbish stat, just like PER. Both are just linear weight summations from box scores, that provide no new information.

    Hollinger (PER) and Oliver (win shares) are both smart guys, but they tell us nothing about what actually went on that we can't ascertain from a box score (and both guys have used more sophisticated metrics in their work for teams; these are simplistic stats for public consumption).

    RAPM is a much better metric (and one that Front Offices actually use and value), based on play-by-plays, and actually derived from scoring margin (which is the point of the game). During their three Finals runs (both guys were major contributors, so they're somewhat comparable; inb4 some fool tries to mention a role player's RAPM in a failed attempt to discredit the stat):

    08: Kobe 4.51 Pau 3.48
    09: Kobe 5.11 Pau 2.64
    10: Kobe 4.47 Pau 1.13

    BTW stats-for-the-nba.appspot.com is not a reliable source for RAPM...it uses box score elements to create a blended metric. The following are reliable sources:

    http://www.gotbuckets.com/ (97-00)
    http://ascreamingcomesacrossthecourt.blogspot.com/ (08-14)
    https://sites.google.com/site/rapmstats/ (only 03-07, since 01 and 02 have incomplete datasets; use GotBuckets for later seasons)
    Great post, fpliii.

    I'm one of those that uses PER (usually in a H2H comparison where guys play similar roles), but RAPM, from what I gather, seems to be far more in-depth.

    Also, is there a reason bball-ref doesn't have it mentioned in their glossary?

  15. #15
    GOAT sportjames23's Avatar
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    Default Re: Props to Pau Gasol thread...

    Quote Originally Posted by JT123
    I thought that for once a Kobe stan was about to thank Pau for Kobe's last 2 rings. I should have known better.

    I know, right? That'd be like a Lebron stan thanking Bosh and Ray Ray for his last ring. Crazy, ain't it?

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