Kobe made Gasol better and Bran made Bosh worse

[Artillery]

You still have no explanation for the 2011 playoffs when phil was still the coach and pau got outplayed by carl landry in the first round and slaughtered by Dirk in the second.

Pau's regular season was fine. His post-season was sabotaged by Kobe and his rat wife screwing with his personal affairs. They both undid three year of work Phil did with Pau. PJ was getting ready to check out anyway so it was too late for him to repair the damage.

[SexSymbol]

False. 2012 was worse than 2011. And the 2011 playoff collapse should be attributed to Kobe and his rat wife for screwing with Pau's personal life. What a great teammate Kobe is.

Pau's regular season numbers support my case:

2009 - 22.2 PER
2010 - 22.9 PER
2011 - 23.3 PER
--Phil leaves--
2012 - 20.4 PER
2013 - 16.7 PER
2014 - 19.3 PER

It's been a gradual decline since Phil left. WS/48 also supports this theory:

2009 - .223
2010 - .220
2011 - .232
--Phil leaves--
2012 - .165
2013 - .107
2014 - .076

Pau was always a good player, even back in his Memphis days. He didn't need anyone on the court to improve his game. He needed a motivator - someone like Phil.

If Kobe actually was able to magically improve his teammate, explain why he did nothing for Dwight? Or Caron Butler? Or Lin? Or Nash? These guys all turned to trash when they played for LA. Boozer has always been a double digit scorer his entire career but now he's posting career lows after moving to the Lakers. Karl Malone and Gary Payton were all-stars the year before they joined the Lakers. Both turned to trash after joining Kobe and co. LA Lakers - where careers go to die. Dat Kobe effect.

A very stupid, absolutely agenda driven post.
Dwight has a childish mind that Kobe ain't coping with, you know that, you just choose to ignore it.
Butler was very young.
Lin is here for four games, chill out, wait at least half a season to make such assumptions, you know this, you choose to ignore it.
Nash has been riddled with injuries, you know this, you choose to ignore it.
Karl Malone and Gary Payton joined a team with two all-stars in their prime, of course their production will plummet to career-lows while playing 3rd and 4th bananas, you know this, you choose to ignore it.
Boozer is getting older and older, his production is declining year by year, you know this, you choose to ignore it.

You know everything about Gasol situation, how he was a 3rd option in 2012, how he was a 3rd option in 2013, how he had injuries and still played decent in 2014 when he got his touches.

Yet again, you know all this, and you choose to drown in your ignorance, be a man.

[Mr Exlax]

Would you like an answer from a fan instead of a stan? Kobe didn't make Gasoline better. The team that Gasol played for in LA was better than the teams he played for in Memphis. Also, he got to be the second option because Kobe was so much better than him. Their games complimented each others too. Inside outside dynamic.

Bosh's numbers suffered because he went from first option to the third option. You can't expect him to put up the same numbers as he did in Toronto being a 3rd option. That's just plain dumb. He really should have been the second option in Miami though. His game complimented both LBJ and Dwade's. They had inside and he had outside. No shocker that he's killing it right now though. In his prime, motivated and is the first option again. Miami coaches should have utilized him better.

[Artillery]

A very stupid, absolutely agenda driven post.
Dwight has a childish mind that Kobe ain't coping with, you know that, you just choose to ignore it.
Butler was very young.
Lin is here for four games, chill out, wait at least half a season to make such assumptions, you know this, you choose to ignore it.
Nash has been riddled with injuries, you know this, you choose to ignore it.
Karl Malone and Gary Payton joined a team with two all-stars in their prime, of course their production will plummet to career-lows while playing 3rd and 4th bananas, you know this, you choose to ignore it.
Boozer is getting older and older, his production is declining year by year, you know this, you choose to ignore it.

You know everything about Gasol situation, how he was a 3rd option in 2012, how he was a 3rd option in 2013, how he had injuries and still played decent in 2014 when he got his touches.

Yet again, you know all this, and you choose to drown in your ignorance, be a man.

The facts are on my side, you just chose to ignore them. Pau didn't physically decline after 2011. He was still beasting on the Spanish national team. How come he wasn't replicating this play in the NBA? Phil not being around is a big reason why. Kobe doesn't make his teammate better. He's just a one-dimensional scorer(a good one but still one-dimensional). He's not going to elevate bad squads into 50 win contenders. Very few can. Off the top of my head - Lebron and Robinson come to mind. Put prime Kobe on those Cavs teams and they won't even make the playoffs(let alone sniff the Finals). Put prime Kobe on those 90s Spur teams and he wouldn't come anywhere near 50 wins.

He had four all-stars in 2013 and still struggled to make it out of the lottery. He refused to change his game in order to accommodate and assist his teammates. 2004 is another example - four Hall of Famers on his team and he decides to chuck the Lakers out of a title. Kobe's an explosive scorer but his inability to get his teammates involved has always been his flaw. Ginobili is a better example of a shooting guard that improves his teammates. Manu wrecked havoc against the Pistons in the '05 Finals - crazy levels of impact. Kobe, in comparison, was a blackhole that sinked his team against that same Pistons squad.

If you want to talk about Kobe's scoring prowess - fine. No one will argue with you there. But let's not twist facts in order to invent some type of BS narrative about Kobe being someone that brings the best out of his teammates. That's doing a great disservice to Phil Jackson - the real mastermind behind the Lakers success in the 2000s.

[Collie]

2011 playoffs was uncharacteristic for both Pau and Phil Jackson. I think when Phil saw that he was up against a team of destiny like the Mavs and that they weren't gonna win, he became incredibly frustrated.

Pau had a big role in the collapse as well. No doubt he played like shit. Phil was livid with Pau in the Dallas series, the first time I've ever seen him lose his cool in a game. They both knew that it was the end of an era.

[Doranku]

The facts are on my side, you just chose to ignore them. Pau didn't physically decline after 2011. He was still beasting on the Spanish national team. How come he wasn't replicating this play in the NBA? Phil not being around is a big reason why. Kobe doesn't make his teammate better. He's just a one-dimensional scorer(a good one but still one-dimensional). He's not going to elevate bad squads into 50 win contenders. Very few can. Off the top of my head - Lebron and Robinson come to mind. Put prime Kobe on those Cavs teams and they won't even make the playoffs(let alone sniff the Finals). Put prime Kobe on those 90s Spur teams and he wouldn't come anywhere near 50 wins.

He had four all-stars in 2013 and still struggled to make it out of the lottery. He refused to change his game in order to accommodate and assist his teammates. 2004 is another example - four Hall of Famers on his team and he decides to chuck the Lakers out of a title. Kobe's an explosive scorer but his inability to get his teammates involved has always been his flaw. Ginobili is a better example of a shooting guard that improves his teammates. Manu wrecked havoc against the Pistons in the '05 Finals - crazy levels of impact. Kobe, in comparison, was a blackhole that sinked his team against that same Pistons squad.

If you want to talk about Kobe's scoring prowess - fine. No one will argue with you there. But let's not twist facts in order to invent some type of BS narrative about Kobe being someone that brings the best out of his teammates. That's doing a great disservice to Phil Jackson - the real mastermind behind the Lakers success in the 2000s.

the amount that your hate for Kobe blinds you from reality is saddening

[returnofthemack]

How many finals did bosh make before Lebron? After teaming up with Lebron? If bosh can lead the heat to the finals or a title then this will be a legit arguement. Until then meh.

[AnaheimLakers24]

5> 2*