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Old 03-10-2007, 03:06 PM   #1
Glove_20
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Default Top 10 Point Guards of All-Time (Ranked)

It took a lot of thought to put this list together...And obviously it wasn't easy. And probably will get more criticism because its a "ranked" list...And just a Top 10 list...I have listed my reasons and reasons for not picking all of the players...I have weighted everything from, longetivity, winning, awards, skills, passing, and their overall career status



Top 10 Point Guards of All-Time




1.

Magic Johnson

Advantages: Where do we start for the greatest PG of all-time...1st of all, he was one of the best passers ever. Thats a good start. He is easily a top 3 passer of all-time. Important for a PG. And then you go onto seeing he was a great scorer and a terrific rebounder. But thats not where it stops, he has all the awards one would want, 3 time MVP. And to sum it all off, he has 5 championships. There couldn't be any better.

Disadvantages:
This list is short. Defense was one thing he lacked. Also, his career wasn't as long as one would want from a GOAT.





2.
Oscar Robertson


Advantages: His overall talent and game. The guy is the best scoring PG of all-time. He had great passing numbers. Believe it or not, he won 7 assist titles. Very dominating. And is said by many the greatest rebounding PG of all-time. He had it all. He also was a good defender. He trully could do it all. Has many awards as well, countless amounts of All-NBA 1st selections, was an all-star many years and so on. Oh yeah, also won a ring.

Disadvantages: Well he didn't do much winning most of his career...Even though he has 1 title, it came as a 2nd option and not a 1st. Also he dominated the ball quite a bit.





3.
Isiah Thomas



Advantages:
Where do we begin here. He had great passing skills to start off with. He was an amazing scorer, and he won a couple of titles. All the way complete. Not only that he had Multiple All-Star app, and that Finals MVP looks great.

Disadvantages:
He had a very short career. Retired at age 32. Though it began kind of early, and he still accomplished quite a bit. Another thing was he was very TO prone. And defense wasn't his greatest thing either



4.
Bob Cousy



Advantages:
The 1st ever True PG. And maybe the greatest ever. He is another Top 3 Passing PG of all-time. Winning an incredible 8 assist titles in a row. He was also one of the best scorers in his era. Being Top 3 in scoring for 3 years. And finish it all off he has more rings than any PG on here. 6 championships. And there is no doubt if the Finals MVP award he existed, he would have at least one. He has also won an MVP.


Disadvantages:
It would look like after all he has accomplished he should be at least 3rd. But he played in a less competetive era. And he was behing Russell as the best player on the team for most of his career. Other than that, he is a great PG.





5.

John Stockton


Advantages:
Probably the most truest PG of them all. And another no doubt Top 3 Passing PG of all-time. Great career longetivity and is the all-time leader in assists and steals. Also had multiple All-Star app. and multiple All-Defensive Team Selections.

Disadvantages: Well, he didn't win a ring. Even though he had a Top 15 player of all-time with him. Another problem was he wasn't a "Take over the game" type PG. He never really was a "Superstar"/"Team Leader", he just did his own stuff really well. But he still was one of the great PGs no doubt.





6.
Gary Payton


Advantages:
Another long list of advantages. Great scorer 1st of all. One of the best for a PG at that. He was an exceptionally good passer as well. Finishing over 8apg 6 times. Defense is probably what he will be recognized for the most. Amazing defender for a PG. Above average in rebounding also helps. He also won a ring. And had many All-Star app. and All-NBA App. Great longetivity as well


Disadvantages:
Another short list. The main thing is that he didn't win a ring in his prime. Other than that, there isn't much.




7.
Walt Frazier


Advantages:
Here is another no doubt Top 10 PG of all-time. 1st of all, he was a terrific scorer. Multiple seasons of 20+ppg. Also one of the greatest defensive PGs of all-time. And he was a solid passer and rebounder as well. The guy also won 2 rings.


Disadvantages:
1st of all, his passing wasn't really that good for a PG. Only had more than 7apg twice in his career. That really hurts him. And the 2 rings he won he didn't get a Finals MVP so he was the no.2 guy. Also, his career wasn't that long.




8.
Jason Kidd

Advantages:
Well lets get started. He was a great passer/playmaker. One of the best of all-time. He also was a great rebounder. And he played great defense. Multiple All-Star App/Multiple All-NBA Team App. also helps him. There is no doubt he should be up on these Top PG lists.

Disadvantages: Well he wasn't really one of the greatest scorers. Shot many low FG% years. And he hasn't been able to win a ring either. Other than that, there isn't much for Kidd.




9.

Kevin Johnson

Advantages: The most underrated player of all-time. He was a terrific scorer. One of the best PGs in that category. He also was a great passer. One of the best in that category as well. That should lock him in that list already. He also was not too bad of a defender either. Pretty underrated.

Disadvantages: Well he also didn't win a ring. Also another reason was he was injured a lot, and that cut his career quite a bit. Other than that, he is a lock for this list.




10.
Steve Nash


Advantages: 1st of all I'd like to say, right now he isn't in. But when this season is over and all his stats and everything are recorded for this season, he will be in. He was a great passer, and a pretty good scorer. He also has won 2 MVPs, and that should be good enough to get you in to this list.


Disadvantages:
Not a good defender. Has never been to the NBA Finals. And also he hasn't played at a high level as the others.











Honorable Mentions: Dennis Johnson, Tiny Archibald, Lenny Wilkins, Dave Bing, Billups,

Last edited by Glove_20 : 03-24-2008 at 09:55 PM.
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Old 03-10-2007, 03:07 PM   #2
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Default Re: Top 10 Point Guards of All-Time (Ranked)

I have to say...the toughest decisions were:

Isiah vs. Cousy

And then Payton vs. Stockton....And I guess you could put Frazier in that too...Kidd vs. KJ was very close too, they were close to Frazier too

And then Nash vs. DJ was tough...




Overall, it was a tough list
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Old 03-10-2007, 03:08 PM   #3
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Default Re: Top 10 Point Guards of All-Time (Ranked)

You may be going a bit overboard always making these "All-Time" topics it is just like alcohol too much of a good thing can be bad. You should make them every six month or annually every year and then we can discuss them and edit if need be.
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Old 03-10-2007, 03:11 PM   #4
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Default Re: Top 10 Point Guards of All-Time (Ranked)

I'd take KJ off the list (big KJ fan) and put Tiny on theire. I would swithc GP and Stockton and then put Clyde infront of GP.
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Old 03-10-2007, 03:12 PM   #5
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Default Re: Top 10 Point Guards of All-Time (Ranked)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jailblazers7
You may be going a bit overboard always making these "All-Time" topics it is just like alcohol too much of a good thing can be bad. You should make them every six month or annually every year and then we can discuss them and edit if need be.
I have never made a positional ranking list before and was told many times I should so I did
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Old 03-10-2007, 03:13 PM   #6
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Default Re: Top 10 Point Guards of All-Time (Ranked)

Kevin Johnson was a better defender than what he was given credit for. Glove, I am sure you remember what Johnson did against Jordan in the 93 Finals. His D and his overall performance made him common knowledge to even the casual basketball fan.

Nice list Glove. I imagine this was one of the more challenging ones. I can't really say what to change.
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Old 03-10-2007, 03:15 PM   #7
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Default Re: Top 10 Point Guards of All-Time (Ranked)

Quote:
Originally Posted by L.Kizzle
I'd take KJ off the list (big KJ fan) and put Tiny on theire. I would swithc GP and Stockton and then put Clyde infront of GP.
Tiny was very overrated. KJ was very underrated. That is enought to put KJ over Archibald easily.

As for Stockotn, GP, and Frazier, yeah its pretty close between all 3 of them. But Payton has the short edges on both of them. Payton outplayed Stockton continously in his prime. If you want to see a prime example of that, I can give that. And Frazier, yeah he has 2 titles, but no Finals MVP. He was the no.2 guy in the finals. And like I said, the biggest disadvantage for Frazier is his lack of passing dominance. Only 2 years over 7apg. That might be Stockton's greatest advantage, but Stockton was really a "Superstar" PG like ALL of these other PGs listed, and he had Malone but no title. So its close betweeen the 3, but I gave it to GP, John, Frazier
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Old 03-10-2007, 03:18 PM   #8
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Default Re: Top 10 Point Guards of All-Time (Ranked)

Quote:
Originally Posted by AIR SETH
Kevin Johnson was a better defender than what he was given credit for. Glove, I am sure you remember what Johnson did against Jordan in the 93 Finals. His D and his overall performance made him common knowledge to even the casual basketball fan.

Nice list Glove. I imagine this was one of the more challenging ones. I can't really say what to change.
Yeah, he was a pretty good defender. And thats why he I said he was underrated in that aspect. Though he isn't remembered for is defense that much anymore. And yeah I do remember, still don't understand why their coach put Majrele back on Jordan after KJ's success and then Jordan blew up again.

But thanks
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Old 03-10-2007, 03:19 PM   #9
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Default Re: Top 10 Point Guards of All-Time (Ranked)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Glove_20
I have never made a positional ranking list before and was told many times I should so I did

Really? I could have sworn i have seen you make numerous all-time lists such as All-time PG's and All-Time SG's.
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Old 03-10-2007, 03:21 PM   #10
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Default Re: Top 10 Point Guards of All-Time (Ranked)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jailblazers7
Really? I could have sworn i have seen you make numerous all-time lists such as All-time PG's and All-Time SG's.
(Ranked)

Check my parantheses, thats the difference...And its actually a big difference
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Old 03-10-2007, 03:22 PM   #11
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Default Re: Top 10 Point Guards of All-Time (Ranked)

Quote:
I am sure you remember what Johnson did against Jordan in the 93 Finals

allow him to score 41.0 ppg ?
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Old 03-10-2007, 03:25 PM   #12
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Default Re: Top 10 Point Guards of All-Time (Ranked)

Quote:
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allow him to score 41.0 ppg ?

Johnson didn't guard Jordan all the time but when he did he held him in check fairly well. But then again, how well can you keep Jordan in check?
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Old 03-10-2007, 03:25 PM   #13
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Default Re: Top 10 Point Guards of All-Time (Ranked)

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Originally Posted by lakers-city
allow him to score 41.0 ppg ?
Obviously you don't remember. Thunder Dan started out the matchup vs. Jordan. And Jordan dominated him. Westphal finally switched over and had KJ guard Jordan and Jordan's performance fell some. Mainly because KJ was forcing Jordan to shoot many more jump shots. But most of Jordan's 1993 Final dominance vs. against Majerle not KJ
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Old 03-10-2007, 03:25 PM   #14
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Default Re: Top 10 Point Guards of All-Time (Ranked)

Bah. I can't stand all your Gary Payton love! It drives me up a wall!!!

Yes, he was good. Was he great? Maybe... (and yes, just maybe)

top 4? NOT EVEN CLOSE!



Grrrr... list his great accomplishments? It's a pretty short list. He was just good, that's all. He was good enough to be an all-star player. That makes him good. Great? Maybe, it's a stretch. Top 5? STOP NOW!
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Old 03-10-2007, 03:30 PM   #15
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Default Re: Top 10 Point Guards of All-Time (Ranked)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkess
Bah. I can't stand all your Gary Payton love! It drives me up a wall!!!

Yes, he was good. Was he great? Maybe... (and yes, just maybe)

top 4? NOT EVEN CLOSE!



Grrrr... list his great accomplishments? It's a pretty short list. He was just good, that's all. He was good enough to be an all-star player. That makes him good. Great? Maybe, it's a stretch. Top 5? STOP NOW!

Well my list of his accomplisments might be too long to list...

But who should be 5th? Stockton? He outplayed him continuously. You might not remember the 1996 Western Confrence series. But it was GP vs. Stockton, both trying to get into their 1st NBA Finals, so you knew the stakes were high. Both on great teams and had great teammates. Both were All-Stars and were in their prime. Heres how the matchup went


Game 1:
John Stockton
2/10 4pts 7ast 2reb 1stl

Gary Payton
8/16 21pts 7ast 4reb 3stl


Game 2:
John Stockton
5/8 11pts 7ast 0reb 1stl

Gary Payton
7/16 18pts 8ast 2reb 4stl


Game 3:
John Stockton
2/9 7pts 6ast 2reb 0stl

Gary Payton
11/21 25pts 3ast 6reb 1stl


Game 4:
John Stockton
3/9 7pts 8ast 3reb 3stl

Gary Payton
7/17 19pts 6ast 4reb 0stl


Game 5:
John Stockton
1/6 4pts 6ast 4reb 2stl

Gary Payton
11/17 31pts 6ast 5reb 2stl


Game 6:
John Stockton
5/11 14pts 12ast 2reb 1stl

Gary Payton
3/7 10pts 7ast 9reb 0stl


Game 7:
John Stockton
9/15 22pts 7ast 8reb 4stl

Gary Payton
9/17 21pts 5ast 6reb 1stl



TOTALS

John Stockton

27/68 39.7% 9.8ppg 7.6apg 3.0rpg 1.7spg 3-4

Gary Payton

56/111 50.4% 20.7ppg 6.0apg 5.1rpg 1.6spg 4-3


Summary:

So here we are...Prime Stockton vs. Prime Payton...Both teams evenly matched...Both teams won more than 60 games...The deepest stage of the Western Confrence...

Gary Payton SHUTS DOWN Stockton...Stockton's season average was 15ppg, 11apg, and 54% shooting...

He shoots below 40%, and Payton holds him below 10ppg...And he wasn't getting his passes going either, his 11apg went down to only 7-8apg...

Payton on the other end had season averages of 19ppg, 7.5apg, and 48%...
Payton scored on Stockton with ease, and did even better than his season...But obviously no team wants to pass too much against Stockton...He kept Payton from getting too many assists...But Payton makes that up with his 5rpg per game average...

And take a look at each game and see how bad Stockton struggled vs. GP.

Oh yeah, so the Prime Payton vs. Prime Stockton series, Payton wins 4-3......Sonics won the series with Payton...And rembember both these teams had successfull seasons, but Payton's Sonics were better than Stockton's Jazz......Basically, Payton beats Stockton in a team game since both teams had the same amount of talent, and the edge anyways on teammates, goes to Stockton...
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