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  1. #31
    National High School Star funnystuff's Avatar
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    Default Re: Clinching Game Stats for MJ, Kobe, LeBron...

    Quote Originally Posted by Yao Ming's Foot
    So you want to ignore the vast amounts of data we do have because we don't have some impossible data that you really want.
    It feels like you just described a Kobe stan.







  2. #32
    Coach SamuraiSWISH's Avatar
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    Default Re: Clinching Game Stats for MJ, Kobe, LeBron...

    Quote Originally Posted by Sarcastic
    TS and def rating don't give full context because they say nothing about how all the other teammates contributed to the games. Only way to get full context is to sit down and watch each game.
    Agreed. Defensive Rating alone also doesn't tell the overall quality of a team, either. A team that has a high powered offense that makes you work hard on that end of the floor is very important as well. All we can do is judge based off the numbers. These players couldn't control or hand pick who they played anyway ... you judge them on their merits.

  3. #33
    WayOfWade
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    Default Re: Clinching Game Stats for MJ, Kobe, LeBron...

    Quote Originally Posted by Sarcastic
    TS and def rating don't give full context because they say nothing about how all the other teammates contributed to the games. Only way to get full context is to sit down and watch each game.
    Not to mention how long it would take for me to go back and find all of that data. Just finding, labeling, copying, and averaging all the games was enough.

  4. #34
    Coach SamuraiSWISH's Avatar
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    Default Re: Clinching Game Stats for MJ, Kobe, LeBron...

    Quote Originally Posted by WayOfWade
    Not to mention how long it would take for me to go back and find all of that data. Just finding, labeling, copying, and averaging all the games was enough.
    Which reminds me ... thanks for doing MAJOR work yet again with these statistical compilations. You did it before for the "do or die" elimination games, it's cool you did it for "money on the table / step on their throat" close out games too. Props.

  5. #35
    You're welcome Yao Ming's Foot's Avatar
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    Default Re: Clinching Game Stats for MJ, Kobe, LeBron...

    Quote Originally Posted by SamuraiSWISH
    Agreed. Defensive Rating alone also doesn't tell the overall quality of a team, either. A team that has a high powered offense that makes you work hard on that end of the floor is very important as well. All we can do is judge based off the numbers. These players couldn't control or hand pick who they played anyway ... you judge them on their merits.
    Exactly. Defensive rating is the best number we have for measuring how effective a team was at limiting efficient scoring in that given year. We could also use SRS to measure the strength of the teams overall. TS% is also obviously a superior number to measure offensive efficiency. Seems like you all like to only embrace the numbers that support whatever mythology it is you cling to.

  6. #36
    WayOfWade
    Fan in the Stands (unregistered)

    Default Re: Clinching Game Stats for MJ, Kobe, LeBron...

    Quote Originally Posted by SamuraiSWISH
    Which reminds me ... thanks for doing MAJOR work yet again with these statistical compilations. You did it before for the "do or die" elimination games, it's cool you did it for "money on the table / step on their throat" close out games too. Props.
    Thank you very much, it means a lot. I'm probably going to revisit the Elimination Game stats for other legends and/or current players. I've already done Stockton and Malone for it, so I just need to find others to round it out.
    Last edited by WayOfWade; 07-14-2013 at 04:29 AM.

  7. #37
    Very good NBA starter
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    Default Re: Clinching Game Stats for MJ, Kobe, LeBron...

    Quote Originally Posted by Yao Ming's Foot
    So you want to ignore the vast amounts of data we do have because we don't have some impossible data that you really want.
    So what your telling me you don't have it? Then sit ur dumbass down. This is where actually watching the games come in handy. Mj superior to ur lover. No amount of twisting stats will change that. This is the same guy who couldn't lead his team out the first round in his prime without a all-star.

  8. #38
    meat mountain avonbarksdale's Avatar
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    Default Re: Clinching Game Stats for MJ, Kobe, LeBron...

    legit why would u do that like dont u have anything better to spend your time on?

  9. #39
    Very good NBA starter
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    Default Re: Clinching Game Stats for MJ, Kobe, LeBron...

    Quote Originally Posted by Yao Ming's Foot
    Exactly. Defensive rating is the best number we have for measuring how effective a team was at limiting efficient scoring in that given year. We could also use SRS to measure the strength of the teams overall. TS% is also obviously a superior number to measure offensive efficiency. Seems like you all like to only embrace the numbers that support whatever mythology it is you cling to.
    It doesn't matter about ts% Mj still comes out better at 34 ppg.

  10. #40
    NBA Legend and Hall of Famer
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    Default Re: Clinching Game Stats for MJ, Kobe, LeBron...

    Quote Originally Posted by Yao Ming's Foot
    Exactly. Defensive rating is the best number we have for measuring how effective a team was at limiting efficient scoring in that given year. We could also use SRS to measure the strength of the teams overall. TS% is also obviously a superior number to measure offensive efficiency. Seems like you all like to only embrace the numbers that support whatever mythology it is you cling to.
    Introducing team stats when comparing individual stats is misguided. Again it says nothing about the teammates nor how much defensive attention a player actually received. There's a big difference between dumping the ball off to Wade or Shaq, who can both create their own shot and dumping off to Pippen who was much more limited on offense.

  11. #41
    You're welcome Yao Ming's Foot's Avatar
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    Default Re: Clinching Game Stats for MJ, Kobe, LeBron...

    Quote Originally Posted by juju151111
    It doesn't matter about ts% Mj still comes out better at 34 ppg.
    If it doesn't matter and Jordan still comes out ahead and you all have valiantly proclaimed without anyone ever saying otherwise there should be no problem with including it in the first place.

  12. #42
    You're welcome Yao Ming's Foot's Avatar
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    Default Re: Clinching Game Stats for MJ, Kobe, LeBron...

    Quote Originally Posted by Sarcastic
    Introducing team stats when comparing individual stats is misguided. Again it says nothing about the teammates nor how much defensive attention a player actually received. There's a big difference between dumping the ball off to Wade or Shaq, who can both create their own shot and dumping off to Pippen who was much more limited on offense.
    I imagine any player scoring 20+ points in series clinching games is getting significant attention from the defense.

    There is no evidence the Kobe or Jordan's individual efficiency markedly improved based on the strength of their offensive teammates. Kobe's efficieny was better in 07 (with Kwame) than 08 (with Gasol). It was better in 05 (with nobody) than 04 (with 3 HOFers).

  13. #43
    I don't get picked last at the park anymore TheWalkman's Avatar
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    Default Re: Clinching Game Stats for MJ, Kobe, LeBron...

    Quote Originally Posted by Yao Ming's Foot
    So you agree with me, but just don't like to admit it because you hold some silly personal vendetta against me.
    YMF always creepin' in these types of threads, he has some silly personal vendetta against MJ for some reason.


  14. #44
    NBA Legend and Hall of Famer
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    Default Re: Clinching Game Stats for MJ, Kobe, LeBron...

    Quote Originally Posted by Yao Ming's Foot
    I imagine any player scoring 20+ points in series clinching games is getting significant attention from the defense.

    There is no evidence the Kobe or Jordan's individual efficiency markedly improved based on the strength of their offensive teammates. Kobe's efficieny was better in 07 (with Kwame) than 08 (with Gasol). It was better in 05 (with nobody) than 04 (with 3 HOFers).
    The point is that if you want full context you need more that def rtg and TS. They are just pieces to a puzzle, but don't complete it.

  15. #45
    You're welcome Yao Ming's Foot's Avatar
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    Default Re: Clinching Game Stats for MJ, Kobe, LeBron...

    Quote Originally Posted by Sarcastic
    The point is that if you want full context you need more that def rtg and TS. They are just pieces to a puzzle, but don't complete it.
    It's the best we have. Clearly adding that data is a better alternative than ignoring defense altogether.

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