So KBlaze...this game didn't matter?

[Kblaze8855]

Unless at some point he played better than anyone ever played...winning ___ in a row doesnt mean hes on a higher level. It means he hit a high level and stayed there for a long time. And in such an unlikely situation...it would probably mean 5-10 timely injuries to other teams, a hell of a lot of lucky bounces, and teammates stepping up at just the right time.

You cant indvidually be good enough to make something like that happen.

[DMAVS41]

You notice that I didnt turn up and go all "What say you now bitches?!" or make a big deal out of it right? You noticed that I didnt make a big deal out of when he missed the big shot early in the series? You notice that in all your time here....my favorite players or most hated...I dont show up acting an ass gloating about being right because of a single series, or play, or shot or anyone being proven wrong by the same?

Take note of that...and decide if asking me this question is really needed.

Chris Paul is one of my favorite players...but if he wins the next 7 titles he isnt better than Magic. If he never wins another playoff series...he wont in retrospect be worse than Mark Price or anyone I think he beats out now. Im not gonna sit and rebuild my PG rankings and shift Dave Bing over here and Frazier over there...maybe drop Terry Porter and slide Jason Kidd up here....after a series. Or a playoffs.

Hes 30. He will never get better(I suppose its possible in some areas...shooting for one...but on the whole hes not improving much). These games...these moments...determine legacy. The terribly overused and poorly defined thing 22 year olds on the internet cant stop talking about because its so easy to count up how many ____ a guy won or times he led the league in ____ and reach a conclusion.

Its easy to say "Well....if Lebron wins another ring thats 3 rings, 4 MVPs, and 11 all nba teams...he has to go over Bird" its difficult to have a reasonable discussion on who plays basketball better.

So we play these games...we assign value to this and that...and these arguments never end.

I do not much care about legacy talk.

I care about basketball playing ability. No doubt you will come and tell me "But it matters how people plaaaaaaaaaaay" as if anyone could honestly interpret my position to mean it literally doesnt matter...I will read it and wonder how many times im going to have to explain it before it sinks in....and then probably not bother doing it again and just watch the game.

People are gonna hate. Hate isnt rational...its emotional. The emotion makes people stupid. These stupid people are going to take nothing from last nights win if the Clippers dont win in the second round...and probably the WCF. It doesnt matter if the Spurs are better than a lot of teams that guys played in the finals. Stupid people and legacy addicts cling to the easily quantifiable.

The round ____ lost. Shooting percentages. Single plays going well or not.

I care only as far as "legacy" talk....which I dont care much about to begin with.

It matters for that. It doesnt matter much to me....because the more I interact with "legacy" fans the less I think of them. Not because legacy talk isnt a worthwhile subject....but because the people obsessed with it cant see the trees for the forest. They try to talk on too grand a scale and ignore or are ignorant to the many small things that make a forest what it is.

If we cant agree...we cant agree. I dont need to talk about it after every game.

Im never gonna show up and act an ass because someone I support plays well. Im never gonna come in and say "Oh...maybe hes not that good" after they dont. I'll evaluate the circumstances and keep it moving.

If you feel a need to keep putting things I didnt say in quotation marks, telling people I said things I didnt(I said I didnt think Paul would win....not that he couldnt...ive often said any star can lead a title run on a deep enough team), or calling me out for...in this case...supporting someone who played well and won? Or wondering if since I like the guy im gonna come in on some "Oh...this? Yea this was huge...." shit like what I think no longer applies when the situation is in my favor.....fine.

You do that. But you have to know im not gonna keep indulging it. At some point I have to just stop responding. How many times do you want to have this discussion?

I decide over a period of years how good I think you are. Then...it doesnt much change unless the player does. They may have ups...downs. Whatever. You choosing to twist that into me claiming to see the future....go right ahead. I cant keep explaining it forever.

A simple question. No need for a big response.

Did it matter that Paul played great last night?

I'll make it even simpler...

Did it matter at all if Paul played great or he played terrible last night? Please answer simply.

[Kblaze8855]

Dont ask me for simple answers. Ask me for the truth(as I see it) or leave me be. I will explain it as clearly as I can. What I will not do is be told how to answer. Accept my answer or ask someone else a question.

Things as simple as yes or no dont spark discussions about them to begin with.

Something mattering or not is relative like all other things. It matters for some issues...it doesnt for others. Specify and get an answer. Eventually.

What exactly you win matters to "legacy" or the even more abstract "greatness".

But how good you are isnt determined by any single week....or night...or quarter...or shot.

Thats about as simply as I can put it. Agree or dont....im sure you understand what I mean.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Dont ask me for simple answers. Ask me for the truth(as I see it) or leave me be. I will explain it as clearly as I can. What I will not do is be told how to answer. Accept my answer or ask someone else a question.

Things as simple as yes or no dont spark discussions about them to begin with.

Something mattering or not is relative like all other things. It matters for some issues...it doesnt for others. Specify and get an answer. Eventually.

[Kblaze8855]

I didnt notice the ship in the background for a while.

[ArbitraryWater]

Unless at some point he played better than anyone ever played...winning ___ in a row doesnt mean hes on a higher level. It means he hit a high level and stayed there for a long time. And in such an unlikely situation...it would probably mean 5-10 timely injuries to other teams, a hell of a lot of lucky bounces, and teammates stepping up at just the right time.

You cant indvidually be good enough to make something like that happen.

yeah, like that wouldnt captivate him over the Fraziers, Paytons, and Kidd's all-time... please.

[Im Still Ballin]

kblaze can you send me your email I want to chat

[AirFederer]

Chris Paul is one of my favorite players...but if he wins the next 7 titles he isnt better than Magic. If he never wins another playoff series...he wont in retrospect be worse than Mark Price or anyone I think he beats out now. Im not gonna sit and rebuild my PG rankings and shift Dave Bing over here and Frazier over there...maybe drop Terry Porter and slide Jason Kidd up here....after a series. Or a playoffs.

Hes 30. He will never get better...

What the hell did I just read? So if how he plays gives awesome results and titles, he will still not be improved in your eyes and his ranking will not be affected?

Then why play games at all?

[DMAVS41]

Dont ask me for simple answers. Ask me for the truth(as I see it) or leave me be. I will explain it as clearly as I can. What I will not do is be told how to answer. Accept my answer or ask someone else a question.

Things as simple as yes or no dont spark discussions about them to begin with.

Something mattering or not is relative like all other things. It matters for some issues...it doesnt for others. Specify and get an answer. Eventually.

What exactly you win matters to "legacy" or the even more abstract "greatness".

But how good you are isnt determined by any single week....or night...or quarter...or shot.

Thats about as simply as I can put it. Agree or dont....im sure you understand what I mean.

Nearly everything you say is a straw man of my position that has clearly been spelled out.

I will try once more. I'm not arguing for anyone drastically changing their opinion based on one play, one game, one series, or one year.

I'm simply asking if it matters if a player plays great in a big situation/game or plays poorly.

I'll try the hypothetical question one more time.

You have two players that are identical in all ways except for 1 game. Let's pretend that player is CP3 and there are 2 identical versions of him except for the game last night. You are the GM of a team and you know exactly how their careers will play out.

Again...they are identical outside of the game 7 from last night.

Version 1:

The CP3 from last night. Plays great, fights through the injury, and makes the game winning shot and Clippers advance.


Version 2:

CP3 version that turns it over 6 times and shoots 0-6 from the 3 point line and the Clippers lose by 10.

Which version would you draft? Again, their past and future outside of this 1 game is the same.

Could you please tell me which version you would draft?

[DMAVS41]

What the hell did I just read? So if how he plays gives awesome results and titles, he will still not be improved in your eyes and his ranking will not be affected?

Then why play games at all?

Good question.

[ArbitraryWater]

Kblaze would have Paul with 7 Titles and lets say 4-5 FMVP's, still around top 40... lol.. didn't get any better.

[Im Still Ballin]

Kblaze writing that;

[Kblaze8855]

Did I say Kidd/payton/Frazier or did I say Magic?

And if the Clippers win rings till....2021...Paul is 37-38 by the end. Am I to assume hes better at basketball at 38 than he was in 2008? By the way.....I said this in 2007:

Why do people get so offended at the idea current players can be the equal of retired players with greater legacies?

Im as big a fan of the 80s and 90s as anyone but im gonna say it....

Karl Malone in MVP season form.....right now...is not a top 3 PF in the league. He was not better than Duncan, KG, or Dirk. A bunch of people would be annoyed to hear it....and I admit it sounds odd but....Karl Malone has a better case to be the #1 PF of all time than he does to be better than any PF has been the last 8 years. I'll explain that if needed but ill move on for now...

Greatness....ability. Not the same.

George Mikan was greater than Wilt as a rookie. Doesnt mean he was better at basketball.

Greatness often increases as ability decreases. Hard to avoid when one is stacking accomplishments and totals as one ages.

Career gets better. Game gets worse.

Happens all the time. Lebron will get "greater" with every ASG, all nba team, award and so on.

If he ever gets better than he was 2009-2014....ill be shocked.

The two just arent the same.

[Real Men Wear Green]

I think the point blaze is trying to make that is being missed is that if Paul's level of play doesn't improve he's not going to view him as being any better regardless of what he wins.

In order to get 7 rings without improving he'd have to get traded to the Thunder for nothing or something like that so a lot of you are having a hard time wrapping your heads around that statement so let's put it like this: Rings don't necessarily mean an individual player is greater than the next man. It's like old Robert Horry example. Do guys like Horry and Kerr belong in the Hall of Fame? So taking it up to the all-time greats, if Paul gets seven rings without actually improving does that mean he was a better player than Magic?

[AirFederer]

Lol so him making game winners and 7 rings would not be enough?