would guys like Bob Cousy, Jerry West, John Havlicek etc be stars in today's league?

[OldSchoolBBall]

havelicek and west were athletic and skilled for their era. They never displayed the same level of ball handling and speed/quickness/hops as the average guard of today.

West was 6ft2 and 170 pounds.

West would list at 6'4" today. He was 6'2.5" without shoes, and today they measure in shoes and round up to the nearest inch.

[Kiddlovesnets]

lol another epic fail thread...

[DKLaker]

How the hell would he be Nash? He had no left hand ! He would get raped on the court by quicker guard...the other two would be studs. Jerry West was a baller and would consistantly give buckets to any 2 guard BUT he also played really good D is what people forget..Havlicek is just a basketball player just like Billy Cunningham, Dave Cowens etc. no matter what they/he would have got his on the court.

You beat me to it......lol.

[Fatal9]

Cousy had some of the funniest anklebreakers.

[STATUTORY]

Cousy had some of the funniest anklebreakers.

bumping this for the . Cousy would not be able to play in college level if he was brought to today.

Jerry west and havelicek also do not have the most fluid dribble compared to today's players.

[jstern]

bumping this for the . Cousy would not be able to play in college level if he was brought to today.

Jerry west and havelicek also do not have the most fluid dribble compared to today's players.

The thing is that if you put Steve Nash back in the 50s, send him back in time, he would also have to dribble that way. I don't even know how to call that type of dribbling, straight up and down, no turning the hand to the side, else it would be a carry. I think it forces them to run also, since it would be more comfortable running when dribbling that way than walking down the court.

[knickswin]

There is no way Bob Cousy could play in today's NBA. Look at his handles, they're awful. Look at his jumper, it looks like he's passing for an alley-oop.

I don't think most guards had the handles, athleticism, or skills to play today.

Some of the big men could. Kareem without a doubt, probably Wilt but he wouldn't dominate, Bill Russell could but he'd look like Kendrick Perkins on offense.

[jlauber]

Cowherd was talking about this, said a player like Maya Moore and Candace Parker could play than because they are just as athletic.. The fast sprinter back in those days is slower then the fastest woman today in sports

I am supposed to believe that the best women in the world today could play basketball in the NBA in the 60's??????

Cowherd needs to study his NBA history. The players in the 60's weren't shooting set-shots at peach baskets. They had gifted athletes, just as we have today.

Am I supposed to believe that women could hang with say Elgin Baylor, who was 6-5, 225 lbs. and could grab 19 rpg in a league in which the starting centers were over 6-10? Or that a woman could guard Gus Johnson, who at 6-6, 235 lbs, shattered THREE backboards? Or a woman could guard Oscar, who was 6-5 220 lbs? Or a woman could outrebound 6-8 230 lb. Jerry Lucas? Or a woman could keep up with Hal Greer, who was one of the fastest players in the league? Or 6-7 "Kangaroo Kid" Billy Cunningham? Would the best women score against 6-4 Walt Frazier?

How about this...how many women have you seen dunk with a leap from the FT line? Well, would you believe a 6-4 WHITE guy, playing in the 40's and 50's was doing just that?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Pollard

In the NBA, Pollard was considered one of the best forwards in the 1940s and 1950s, and was known for his leaping ability[1] (Pollard would occasionally dunk from the free throw line during warmups[2]) earning him the nickname "The Kangaroo Kid".

Is there a woman today who is a 6-10 WORLD-CLASS high-jumper (as well as a competitor in the 440) with as high a standing reach as Kareem...like Bill Russell? Is there a woman who could physically stand up to 6-11 245 lb. Nate Thurmond, who had an enormous wing-span?

There were a TON of 6-10 to 7-0 footers back in the 60's, too. Swede Holbrook was 7-3. Tom Boerwinkle was 7-0 260 lbs. Mel Counts, Hank Finkle, and Walter Dukes were all seven-footers. Then there were players like HOFer 6-11 Walt Bellamy, 6-11 Leroy Ellis, and 6-11 Walt Wesley. And, of course, add a good inch to each of them when measured by today's standards. And, BTW, Kareem, who came into the NBA in 1969, was probably taller than his listed 7-2.

Willis Reed was 6-9 235. Wayne Embry was 6-8 250. Luke Jackson was 6-9 260. And players like Havlicek and West could run up-and-down the court at full speed for 48 minutes. And does anyone think that today's women would be as good as Rick Barry? Or shoot as well as Jon McGlocklin? Or be as athletic as Connie Hawkins? Maya Moore at 6-0 170 DUNKING? Well, 5-9 Calvin Murphy was doing it.

The facts were, there were a PLETHORA of 6-8"+ 220+ lb males ATHLETES playing in the BASKETBALL in the 60's...and only a SMALL percentage made it to the NBA.

And yet I am supposed to beliieve that 6-4 175 lb. Candace Parker and 6-0 170 lb. Maya Moore would have made an NBA roster in the 60's? Yeah right.

[pudman13]

You know who seems like the most unlikely star in NBA history to me? Gail Goodrich. He played in a much more athletic era than, say, Cousy, and managed to average 20+ points 6 times, including 25+ twice. We've had some great players who were built similarly (Price, Stockton and Nash come to mind), but none who played the shooting guard position or scored as much as him. I really don't know much about him--he always seems to be in the shadow of Jerry West. Maybe he was an athletic freak like Havlicek, or maybe he was an obsessive practice-10-hours-a-day guy like Maravich or Ernie D. I just don't know.

Sorry to compare him to only white guys; actually a pretty good comparison would also be Tiny Archibald, who was also a lefty and was even smaller, but again Tiny was a point guard not a shooting guard.

[CavaliersFTW]

Cousy made passes and plays that 90% of today's point guards can't make. Showing a (slow motion mind you) clip of him dribbling resulting in a guy tripping means what exactly? Would a slow motion gif of Lebron flopping encapsulate this era?

[Kblaze8855]

Nah. Ive seen Cousy himself say in 1974 that the points of that time were doing things he couldnt. He was a poineer. But he wast doing anything most college points cant do now. And I bet he would tell you so himself.

[inclinerator]

they would be star ballboys

[Psileas]

What if time machines didn't exist and people were born and grew up in certain eras? I know, it's hard to imagine a world without the everyday use of time machines, but let's just make some effort to assume otherwise...




On a more serious note, humans are adaptable beings. If you have the talent, the will and the means, you will succeed, be it in 1980 or 2013 or 2400. Say Jerry West is "transported" today, plays 1 game and only scores 8 points, would this be evidence that he'd be a scrub? Would Jordan's first game (6-17 fg) be evidence that he'd be a bricklayer if it also was his last one?
Would a full season's struggle cut it? How about Steve Nash in his first season? How about Clyde Drexler or Scottie Pippen, even Karl Malone? Not exactly superstar materials at first glance, right? Yet, look how they evolved. What reason would prevent us from believing that someone like West would be able to do the same, even if he faced early struggles (which he actually did in real life, back in the early 1960-61 season)?

[outbreak]

if they grew up in this era then they would likely still be stars as they would have grown up with the modern game

[CavaliersFTW]

Nah. Ive seen Cousy himself say in 1974 that the points of that time were doing things he couldnt. He was a poineer. But he wast doing anything most college points cant do now. And I bet he would tell you so himself.

I can see why Cousy would say that, Cousy couldn't do several of the stand-out things the crop of 1974 guards like Frazier, Archibald, Monroe, etc were doing because a lot of them were either greater defenders and/or much more skilled and polished shooters than he was. What most seperates him from them strictly from the skillset he posessed back then would be his poorer shooting relative to those guards - he never mastered a jump shot, he came into the league when people were still okay with guards shooting set shots from the perimeter. But the plays he was making in the open court - specifically with the aid of the the exceptionally good peripheral vision he had from what I can tell are not routine college point-level. I disagree with that generalization - all the clips I see of him show a player with a special kind of open court vision, like Magic. I think his natural instincts and talents in open court situations were elite then and were what made him special, and that ability that stood out in his game back then would still stand out and be an elite asset today. To be clear, I recognize his deficincies in skill but I believe under different conditions from a young age - he could still build his game up to an elite level.

You may also recall he has pointed out before that he was also a 'freak' with long arms big hands and exceptionally good peripheral vision that helped him play the game on a talent level greater than most other contemporaries and those things he had appear to be more pronounced in him than they do 'most college points'. To be at the NBA level you have to be a combination of more competitive and physically/intellectually gifted than everyone else. He had more of those 3 things than the 15 million or so youths that grew up in his own era playing the game. So I tend to think if he were brought up in a modern program he wouldn't just fizzle out at the college level. That's just my opinion, I respect your input on the subject though.