Im going to sound like a complaining old hater for a moment here but hear me out....

[Kblaze8855]

Who else remembers when you couldnt carry to get by your man?

Im not just talking about the NBA. Its that way there...but just...playing ball. Remember playing before the mid 90s when people started trying to do crossovers and hesitations every time they got in a one on one situation?

Playing ball with kids(I consider kids people under like 20 for this discussion though not in everyday life) its just isolation after isolation people trying to rock you to sleep and hit you with a crossover.

Now...I dont mind really. Its not just...less fun. But watching a few old videos the difference really stood out. A guy like Isiah...or Tiny Archibald. I'll go with tiny for now. I watched a video on Danny Ainge saying he couldnt keep him in front of him in practice and that was Tiny on his last legs.

You watch and they have to dribble low...quickly...let them change direction so fast they would just zip around.

But guys like Jordan came along and would kinda get low and use the insane first step to just explode past you while just barely staying on the side of the ball or getting under it a little.

And it evolved as things do. and its really the main difference between back i nthe day handles and today. its not like people who play ball 8 hours a day dont learn to protect it and get around. They arent less skilled with the ball id say. But half the "moves" people do now are based on either a flat out carry or getting close.

My favorite player right now...Derrick Rose. he probably does what used to be called a carry....25 times a game. Literally. Ive been called for a carry for doing less than he does standing still dribbling at times. Jason Kidd used o carry the whole way up court. As did Grant Hill on the Pistons. People stopped dribbling low to protect it and started dribbling really high but getting under the ball a bit so they could just explode past people trying to reach if they had to.

Rose...Wade. Or here:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3TAwv7CIlqQ


Rondo. They are too athletic to stop when they can just get under it and push off to blow by. Plenty of guys who straight destroy guys one on one have crazy loose handles that just beg for you to reach but they then just carry the ball and....run by you. Then dribble.

Its exciting and all. I dont exactly want to see 5 carries called a game.

But I do wonder what someone like Isiah could do if he didnt need to dribble it 18 times in 12 seconds to confuse you and could just lean one way carry the other and use his quickness.

What made me notice the difference wasnt playing some kids as you might expect. But playing an old guy. Idont even know his name but he was a D1 player back in the day. Hes probably around 50. hes related to my neighbors I play ball with now and then.

He shows up and im telling you..old man is a beast. he doesnt just score a lot but you can tell in his prime he would be nasty. Beautiful form on his shot. you can tell hes taken a lot of free throws too. same routine every time. He doesnt miss. Period. And its frustrating to guard him because he dribbles damn near on the ground. Its a hassle. you have to pull some Jordan hanes commercial white guy "I can get so low in these...I bet I could take you in these...I bet I can take you" shit to even bother him.

He cant WAIT to call a carry. But hes pretty much always right. People do carry...we just pretend the rule doesnt exist anymore.

At this point there is nothing to be done about it. And you cant blame anyone for abusing it when we as fans dont care and the refs wont call it.

But it just makes me wonder how much more effective some of the old guys could be if they could do it at the rate players can now.

Any of the(I suspect...few) regular ball players here call guys out when they carry during games and if so...what is the reaction you get?

Is it as negative as I assume?

You are pretty much considered a douche if you even try to call it arent you?

[Kiarip]

I feel you I especially hate these crossovers that are both hesitation and a crossover all in one. Wade does them a LOT... like there's no way that's not a carry.

like he pushes it in front of him, and then crosses over... the ball changes direction while his hand is on it like 3 times...

[Cali Syndicate]

It's all in the favor of entertainment I think. Watching a defender on skates is fun to watch so they turn a blind eye to it.

[MJ(Mean John)]

Lol yeah.
I can't remember Ever calling a carry. I will call a double or occasional travel if it's getting obvious.

But I cant stand that 1 guy who does nothing but "cross over" and he carries the ball ALL DAY. I won't call it, but I will say out loud (after he scores) "damn. That motherfukcer keeps carrying that shit. All day"

[eliteballer]

wade

[Kblaze8855]

Sometimes I watch a guy try to stay in front of Rose, Wade, or when he feels like it Lebron and I imagine the ref in back as the old And-1 show announcer yelling "No holding no holding!" watching close but only to make sure the defender doesnt somehow break up the highlight by cheating as much as his opponent.

Id be pissed off in an isolation on one of those guys. Not only are they bigger and faster to begin with....but the rules have it set so my help cant stand in the paint behind me, I cant reach in but he can carry, and if i even attempt to bump him as he illegally blows by me no matter how far from the rim he is hes gonna keep going after the whistle lay it in and get the and 1.

Id get broken off 1 time too many and pull a hate fueled Cuban and compile hours of video footage and send it to the league with a copy of the rules on ball handling and make someone tell me why the refs wont call it. Id be pointing it out every possession like the jerks on the playground who just cant let it slide.

Id find a way to be heard....just up until my own teammates got me benched because they want to carry too.

[Cali Syndicate]

Lol yeah.
I can't remember Ever calling a carry. I will call a double or occasional travel if it's getting obvious.

But I cant stand that 1 guy who does nothing but "cross over" and he carries the ball ALL DAY. I won't call it, but I will say out loud (after he scores) "damn. That motherfukcer keeps carrying that shit. All day"

If he keeps palming it every time he touches the ball, I'll call him on it. I might not call a dead play on it but I'll straight up say "you carrying like every time you dribble. Either stop doing that shit else Imma start calling that." Those would be my exact words too.

[Pushxx]

Man this is an insanely insightful and accurate post.

The way the game evolves further devalues from the skills and talents of players in older eras (especially the 80s).

Great post, Kblaze.

John Wall with the usual NBA, fastbreak carry: http://www.nba.com/video/games/wizar..._was_play3.nba
Nothing against him but just another example.

[Kblaze8855]

Yea...there are really just 2 kinds of great fast break players these days. The Lebron types who throw it out 20 feet in front of them to go coast to coast running fast after the loose ball over and over....and the type who run with it and change direction with a carry 4 times or carry to remove the extra dribble so they can just run a little to get there quicker.

Jason Kidds super carry fast breaks on the nets were hilarious. he might carry it 4 times on one fast break. Manu does it too.

They dont really bother me though. At least not as much. Magic used to do those.

But isolation carries? Ive always loved playing defense. One on one defense. Dealing with a guy who will carry all the time is just annoying. And its not like im guarding Wade or anything.

I dont know what you can do vs guys like that.

Never played a slasher near that level. The best guards ive ever guarded were Shammond Williams and Merl Code(clemson...Dleague...was on some NBA teams in the preseason I think). And they were nasty shooters more than anything not just...beat you up off the dribble slashers. At least not when we played.

I wouldnt mind guarding a Monta ellis, Wade, or Rose with current NBA rules just to see how helpless a guy has to feel. Must be a shot to your pride at times.

Im not mad if someone is just making jumpers. But to get walked by over and over the way they do? It must feel like losing a drop of manhood every time.

[ZenMaster]

The way I see it as a coach is: if it's not called it's not a carry, so I teach my guys how to do it most effectively.

In Europe will let you get away with a lot of dribbling these days just like in the NBA but they'll never let you travel the way they do it in the NBA, not even close.

[Kblaze8855]

I suppose if it isnt called it isnt a problem. I wonder how AI felt when the league decided all of a sudden that his crossover was a carry but nobody elses was.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SgMbhTj8HcU

That wouldnt be called on anyone else. Lots of times in the late 90s he got called for shit that guys like Grant Hill could do all day.

[Glide2keva]

I hear you man.

It bothers me watching the game. I see both teams traveling and carrying the ball all the time and I sit there like "are they seriously not calling that?"

It's frustrating when you know the rules and you only see them applied in certain situations.

[JohnnySic]

National Basketball Entertainment

[RaininTwos]

I suppose if it isnt called it isnt a problem. I wonder how AI felt when the league decided all of a sudden that his crossover was a carry but nobody elses was.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SgMbhTj8HcU

That wouldnt be called on anyone else. Lots of times in the late 90s he got called for shit that guys like Grant Hill could do all day.

He was the only one who got called for carries consistently. I agree with your posts though, very insightful.

[ILLsmak]

Yeah, I've never had a cross over.

Really the whole idea of fancy dribbling is lulz to me. I've seen kids with crazy handles. It's kind of like okay when you are done doing what you are doing actually make a move so I can cut you off.

I'd love to just dribble and act like I didn't know what I was doing... make some stupid Toine shimmy fakes and then just get by someone. It's so easy to get by someone and requires no cross over. Sure it looks nice, but all you have to do is get to the point where they are slightly off balance and just burn them the other way. So I guess by the definition of the word it could be a cross over, but it's not something that you emphasize rocking the ball like Iverson would.

I've always been a fan of the spin... going one way putting your body against someone and spinning around the other way is a great move and cooler looking than just a cross over.

Of course I remember when I did a spin on someone playing in a church when I was in HS and smacked my head into a pillar of wood.

Still the spin and especially the spin where you go between your legs... very effective and easy moves. Easier than a cross over and people tend to give you more leeway with carrying if you are spinning. Because if you are spinning right you are going to have the ball almost palmed (or stuck in place because of the motion) while you are changing directions.

-Smak