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  1. #31
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    Default Re: What can society do to help Young men

    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Chewing
    NOT joining Islam.




    The greatest accomplishments throughout the world were done through Jesus Christ.
    Amen!!

  2. #32
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    Default Re: What can society do to help Young men

    Most young men have issues due to their "fathers" being nothing more than sperm donors to their mothers. Any young man coming from a single parent household with a father who is MIA from the beginning has a few strikes against them before they ever come up to bat. The best thing anyone coming from this type of environment an do is to not repeat the cycle. Unlike their sorry ass sperm donor father they should take responsibility for their lives. If they get a woman pregnant they should be a part of the child's life as a role model as well a financially. Be a man. Marry and support any woman who is pregnant with your child. Be everything that your sorry ass absentee sperm donor father was not.

  3. #33
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    Default Re: What can society do to help Young men

    kennedy had a famous quote: ""ask not what your country can do for you; ask what you can do for your country."

    well, i'm going to change that a little bit to:

    "Ask not what society can do for you; ask what you can do for yourself."

    if you're young and you have this mentality, you're already ahead of the game.

  4. #34
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    Default Re: What can society do to help Young men

    Quote Originally Posted by Hawker
    Jordan Peterson seems to be helping out quite a few young men - look to him. No Dads are telling sons these days that life is tough so someone has to.

    More male teachers are likely needed but the pay sucks so no men want to do them. I'd do it only if I was rich.
    It's funny how much closer to the truth your second point is than your first point.

    Do you really believe that you could have saved yourself any trouble if only some grizzled figure had given your kid self an earnest lecture on the hard knocks of life? A guy can talk truth without having any impact. What kid has the incentive to listen to that sort of talk? If they haven't already discovered that life is hard, it's because they haven't had to. Lucky them. And anyone putting on the sort of airs it takes to drum up a lecture like that? They only want attention for the tough luck they've seen around themselves. They don't give more than a shrug for the real, minute, detailed, circumstantial problems going on in the day to day of a living breathing individual.

    Kids who are stuck in the hamster wheel of public schools and average trajectories don't need the whip. They need inspiration. And that only comes from close relationships with inspiring figures who have discovered, for themselves, from some prior mentor of their own, that even the most boring and idle and luxurious and sentimental lifestyle has contained within it all the necessary clues to lead a life worth living. But they need fresh perspective. They have to see someone else, so much like them, with the same biological limitations and unrealistic expectations, plugging away on the same old project, over and over again, regardless of the material rewards or the potential recognition coming back. It takes a rare closeness, between two individuals, who happen to meet. Not a speech from a father figure, or the same speech a hundred times, after each and every failure, from a real live father, who regrets his own ineptitude or inertia and desperately wants to scream his son into the habitual work ethic he always lacked. That's dumb. Leaders lead by example. Not generic preaching popularizing words.

    Jordan Peterson was a good example of that, leading by example I mean, until he gave up his psychological practice and found fame in giving speeches. He's got a whole story for why he had to but I don't find it very convincing.

    And I should say that there are alternatives. I'm not trying to suggest that the whip won't work. The same goes for constant stern judgments from a father who never sees his kid as good enough, which is a whip in itself. A psychopath devoted to denying his child due credit is just as bad as a pushover who denies his child constructive criticism.

    You can make young man work harder and longer. If you want them to get more done, to be more productive, whipping them into shape will work wonders. It's not exactly easy, but there's a roadmap and a prototype for that kind of parenting. Tough talk. Serious business. Shape up, bucko. Life ain't a walk in the park. Get out there and accomplish something. Ascend the hierarchy of structural society and show me you're worthy of my respect. Prosper why don't you? None of that is new, nor are those tropes very much forgotten, and at this very moment, they are already making a ferocious comeback into vogue, as they always do. They represent the oldest common sense of mankind. They don't need your help. They aren't even second nature. They come easily and first.

    Your second point is much closer to the truth... and pretty much the opposite of your first, which is awesome that your perspective is spread across such a broad domain, but odd that you're still stuck on the stick and afraid of the merits of the carrot. Yes, male teachers. Yes, not enough money, not enough prestige. Plus it's just too damn hard. And there's a really tricky niche to the whole terrain, a paradox of sorts, which is something like... the best teachers will waste themselves on the many, while the few are lost in the crowd. How do you connect a promising lost young apprentice with the right mentor? It's sheer dumb luck in my experience. But then probabilities enter the picture. How do we improve those odds? By increasing the pools and accommodating one-on-one relationships between the young and the odd, so that some accident of fortune can maximize the potential of some poor kid and give meaning to the life of some poor schmuck.

    Not easy questions, these. Good thing JEFFERSON MONEY is on the case.

  5. #35
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    Default Re: What can society do to help Young men

    Quote Originally Posted by RidonKs
    It's funny how much closer to the truth your second point is than your first point.

    Do you really believe that you could have saved yourself any trouble if only some grizzled figure had given your kid self an earnest lecture on the hard knocks of life? A guy can talk truth without having any impact. What kid has the incentive to listen to that sort of talk? If they haven't already discovered that life is hard, it's because they haven't had to. Lucky them. And anyone putting on the sort of airs it takes to drum up a lecture like that? They only want attention for the tough luck they've seen around themselves. They don't give more than a shrug for the real, minute, detailed, circumstantial problems going on in the day to day of a living breathing individual.

    Kids who are stuck in the hamster wheel of public schools and average trajectories don't need the whip. They need inspiration. And that only comes from close relationships with inspiring figures who have discovered, for themselves, from some prior mentor of their own, that even the most boring and idle and luxurious and sentimental lifestyle has contained within it all the necessary clues to lead a life worth living. But they need fresh perspective. They have to see someone else, so much like them, with the same biological limitations and unrealistic expectations, plugging away on the same old project, over and over again, regardless of the material rewards or the potential recognition coming back. It takes a rare closeness, between two individuals, who happen to meet. Not a speech from a father figure, or the same speech a hundred times, after each and every failure, from a real live father, who regrets his own ineptitude or inertia and desperately wants to scream his son into the habitual work ethic he always lacked. That's dumb. Leaders lead by example. Not generic preaching popularizing words.

    Jordan Peterson was a good example of that, leading by example I mean, until he gave up his psychological practice and found fame in giving speeches. He's got a whole story for why he had to but I don't find it very convincing.

    And I should say that there are alternatives. I'm not trying to suggest that the whip won't work. The same goes for constant stern judgments from a father who never sees his kid as good enough, which is a whip in itself. A psychopath devoted to denying his child due credit is just as bad as a pushover who denies his child constructive criticism.

    You can make young man work harder and longer. If you want them to get more done, to be more productive, whipping them into shape will work wonders. It's not exactly easy, but there's a roadmap and a prototype for that kind of parenting. Tough talk. Serious business. Shape up, bucko. Life ain't a walk in the park. Get out there and accomplish something. Ascend the hierarchy of structural society and show me you're worthy of my respect. Prosper why don't you? None of that is new, nor are those tropes very much forgotten, and at this very moment, they are already making a ferocious comeback into vogue, as they always do. They represent the oldest common sense of mankind. They don't need your help. They aren't even second nature. They come easily and first.

    Your second point is much closer to the truth... and pretty much the opposite of your first, which is awesome that your perspective is spread across such a broad domain, but odd that you're still stuck on the stick and afraid of the merits of the carrot. Yes, male teachers. Yes, not enough money, not enough prestige. Plus it's just too damn hard. And there's a really tricky niche to the whole terrain, a paradox of sorts, which is something like... the best teachers will waste themselves on the many, while the few are lost in the crowd. How do you connect a promising lost young apprentice with the right mentor? It's sheer dumb luck in my experience. But then probabilities enter the picture. How do we improve those odds? By increasing the pools and accommodating one-on-one relationships between the young and the odd, so that some accident of fortune can maximize the potential of some poor kid and give meaning to the life of some poor schmuck.

    Not easy questions, these. Good thing JEFFERSON MONEY is on the case.
    No, a lecture won't work but Jordan Peterson isn't just a singular lecture is he? He's a body of work. There's numerous anecdotes of individuals improving themselves and while he's gone onto finding fame with his speeches...his lectures are still being shown on youtube and watched by many. So, due to technological progress fueled by men, he can do both. I'm not a huge worshipper of him...I haven't read his books or watched numerous lectures of his but whenever I listed to him on Joe Rogan or his popular interviews, he makes a lot of sense. I learned, "life is hard" and "you obtain satisfaction by overcoming obstacles" on my own but many Dads never instilled this in dudes who grew up without having to worry about difficulty. They saw their big house and great life without acknowledging the first two, five, ten years of his working life to accomplish all that. To get to the point of raising a kid satisfactory.

    So I disagree that they come easily and first. Otherwise his tropes wouldn't be so popular as they are.

    Similarly to raising a son, it isn't one stern talking to but 18 years of work. Academia was naturally hard for me and I generally had an idea that things would get better for me...wasn't necessarily instilled to me within my parents. My Dad is very pollyanna. Further to that, sometimes a talking to from someone who isn't your Dad is also very helpful.

    A lot of people like to ridicule J Peterson for just repeating stuff that's been told to sons numerous times but I'm not sure if that's really been the case. He's still leading by example and from what I know his kids are mainly grown? He's done a good job obviously.

  6. #36
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    Default Re: What can society do to help Young men

    Note: I've had the blessing of teaching children from ages 3 - 17 over the past few months, primarily 12-13 year olds; as well as undergoing a similar stage of life. Most of these kids are WELL-OFF financially, but they suffer from many things humans need.

    Pretty standard advice that takes time and renewal to truly internalize.

    Spiritually

    Having a firm, unshakeable belief in the Hereafter. I can not reiterate this enough---knowing without a doubt that this worldly life is a test for something much grander, much better to come. As long as you do what's right, your heart WILL BE AT PEACE. You and I and the rest of mankind were made for much more and much better than what this world's got to offer.

    Socially

    Cultivate empathy. Just opening your ears and listening and being present for others and smiling works wonders.

    I don't even have to say anything special or witty or hilarious or deep---all I do is just stand and stay attentive and just read people's feelings and acknowledge them and bam you guys are soon best buddies.

    You could see someone raging and instead of passing judgment on them say in a gentle voice---you seem angry. May I ask what's bothering you? and that demonstration fo care works wonders.

    I know for a fact that I go on ISH as a copout because I feel really lonely and don't really connect with people at my local area at the moment---and I reckon a bunch of others suffer from similar situations. Instead of calling each other degenerates or losers or LeBron d!ckriders or whatever (this may motivate a certain personality but it discourages another)---just simply show care. I have a feeling a lot of you guys have had very unfulfilling relationships with friends and family and community.



    Be a good brother to your fellow brethren.

    Mindset

    Taking complete personal responsibility. I am horrible at this--but have started to try.
    Things happen that are out of your control. People abuse you. You work hard and you fail. Dreams diminish. Women disappoint you. Your feelings/emotions are all over the place. You go bankrupt during business. Whatever. Conditions don't seem favorable. Just focus on what you can do--your thoughts, feelings, actions and be more internally oriented.

    No regrets if you try your best.


    Emotionally

    You got to find a way to release these. Look up emotional release technique.

    They are inside you and trapped in your body.
    Unfulfilled because of a lack of love from a parent
    Depression due to your heart being broken from females
    Guilt at some of the actions you've done
    Rage at the goings on in the world
    Sadness at how life isn't what you hoped it would be

    Whatever it is, don't bottle it in---Address it and just intend to... let go..release.

    Acknowledge that they are there... release.

    Acknowledge the pain... release.

    ACknowledge the fear... release.

    It feels like exorcising demons ---seriously. And you feel lighter after.

    Poisons you got to get rid of
    Excessive screen time
    Seeing only the negatives in yourself/others
    Hang-ups about your past
    Not getting to know yourself and your feelings and motivations
    Believing people or objects can fulfill you
    Last edited by JEFFERSON MONEY; 03-19-2019 at 02:17 AM.

  7. #37
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    Default Re: What can society do to help Young men

    Some of you sound like some snowflake libtards with these comments. Young men don’t need Jordan Peterson lectures LOL. They also don’t need all this emotional and spiritual advise. They need productive freaking jobs for Christ’s sake!!!!!! The question is “what can society do to help young men?” Society could organize massive works projects to help young men find productive employment to make a living.
    Last edited by Norcaliblunt; 03-19-2019 at 11:07 AM.

  8. #38
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    Default Re: What can society do to help Young men

    [QUOTE=Norcaliblunt]Some of you sound like some snowflake libtards with these comments. Young men don

  9. #39
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    Default Re: What can society do to help Young men

    Quote Originally Posted by warriorfan
    TheBitch gonna snitch
    Actually no, I don't snitch ever, but somewhat surprised he didn't get banned nor that image deleted Then again, its ISH

  10. #40
    pronouns - he/haw Nanners's Avatar
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    Default Re: What can society do to help Young men

    Quote Originally Posted by Norcaliblunt
    Some of you sound like some snowflake libtards with these comments. Young men don’t need Jordan Peterson lectures LOL. They also don’t need all this emotional and spiritual advise. [B]They need productive freaking jobs for Christ’s sake!!!!!! The question is “what can society do to help young men?” Society could organize massive works projects to help young men find productive employment to make a living.
    Well said. The average millenial enters the workforce already holding tens of thousands of dollars in debt, and these kids earn ~25% less than their uneducated parents did at the same age.

    The best way to help young men is to take steps to address income inequality... something like partial student debt amnesty or a newdeal-esque infrastructure jobs program would probably be a good places to start.

  11. #41
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    Default Re: What can society do to help Young men

    Quote Originally Posted by Nanners
    Well said. The average millenial enters the workforce already holding tens of thousands of dollars in debt, and these kids earn ~25% less than their uneducated parents did at the same age.

    The best way to help young men is to take steps to address income inequality... something like partial student debt amnesty or a newdeal-esque infrastructure jobs program would probably be a good places to start.
    How many young men of past generations were ever stepping into great jobs and super rich at 18-23? Of course there's going to be income inequality when you have **** all job experience, zero years to grow your personal savings and no skills.

    "Income inequality" is a terrible measurement for this stuff.

    And do you really think lots of young men even want to do newdeal-esque type infrastructure projects? Work that requires hard labor? Plus, technology has advanced ten fold since then and less individuals are needed. Waste of time.

    The issue is accumulating that debt in the first place? Why did we foster a culture where a college degree was necessary (and still doing it)? Why did we encourage kids to get expensive degrees that don't pay off? Partial student debt amnesty does nothing to address lack of personal responsbility and accountability.

    I reckon there's tons of jobs out there for millenials - they likely don't want to do them because they think it's beneath them or don't want to move and make the necessary sacrifices to do so.

  12. #42
    pronouns - he/haw Nanners's Avatar
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    Default Re: What can society do to help Young men

    Quote Originally Posted by Hawker
    How many young men of past generations were ever stepping into great jobs and super rich at 18-23? Of course there's going to be income inequality when you have **** all job experience, zero years to grow your personal savings and no skills.
    Who said anything about past generations being "super rich"? Are you capable of discussing my actual post or do you just want to argue against your own straw men?

    In the 50s and 60s a man with no education could support an entire family with one factory job. in 2019 a man with no education can barely even support himself, much less an entire family.

    "Income inequality" is a terrible measurement for this stuff.
    why? because you say so? lol

    And do you really think lots of young men even want to do newdeal-esque type infrastructure projects? Work that requires hard labor? Plus, technology has advanced ten fold since then and less individuals are needed. Waste of time.
    Considering that awful companies to work for like walmart and mcdonalds have no problem filling their workforces with young americans, its pretty clear that there are tons of young men are willing to do about anything if it helps pay the bills.

    The issue is accumulating that debt in the first place? Why did we foster a culture where a college degree was necessary (and still doing it)? Why did we encourage kids to get expensive degrees that don't pay off? Partial student debt amnesty does nothing to address lack of personal responsbility and accountability.
    The title of the thread is "what can society do to help young men". The average millenial has almost $40k in debt... and you cant see why debt amnesty would help young men?

    What exactly are you suggesting we do to help young men? It sounds like your only suggestion is that we should tell them to grab their bootstraps and fu[COLOR="Black"]ck[/COLOR] off... which is basically what we have already been doing for decades.

    I reckon there's tons of jobs out there for millenials - they likely don't want to do them because they think it's beneath them or don't want to move and make the necessary sacrifices to do so.
    I reckon you are a complete fu[COLOR="Black"]c[/COLOR]king idiot. Like I pointed out earlier, the fact that trash employers like walmart and mcdonalds arent having issues hiring young americans makes its pretty fu[COLOR="black"]c[/COLOR]king obvious that this line of thought is completely bogus.
    Last edited by Nanners; 03-20-2019 at 07:34 PM.

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