To all the trolls/haters

[poido123]

If LeBron stayed in Cleveland and won no titles... hell even if he won just one title... no one would put him in the top 10 GOAT list at the end of his career. It doesn't happen, regardless of how good you are.

Since moving to Miami, he has put himself in the conversation at the age of 28. The casual fan values success and accomplishments over anything else, even if LeBron may have been just as dominant staying in Cleveland.

Dirk's title is one of the most respected titles among all fans.

That one title may have propelled him a couple of spots higher on the alltime list, purely because of the way it was won and how dominant Dirk was.

Now, compare that to Lebron teaming up and winning with an expected multiple championship winning team and he has to win 3 titles to 1 dirk title to hold similar weight. Of course Lebron is a better player and he will be pushed higher on alltime lists, purely on his talent alone, the championships and accolades are just further proof that he deserves to be up there.

Many of you have forgiven Lebron or accepted the fact that he joined the Heat in that fashion, but I can never respect a player to of taken the shortcuts Lebron has taken, nor place him higher on alltime lists based on accolades alone. Call me a hater, but a lot of people feel the same way.

[HoopsFanNumero1]

Were people saying that about Dirk or Nash, in particular Dirk before he won a championship? No, in fact these two players had respect from most of the fans. Why? Because they did things the right way.

I could never imagine people calling Dirk the 'stat stuffer' had he not won a championship in his career

Are you an f'n idiot? Dirk had the reputation of a bonafide choker before he got his ring.

I swear all these idiot who keep babbling on about a player 'getting carried' piss me off. Did Dirk get carried by Jet in game 6 of the Finals?

[moe94]

Now, compare that to Lebron teaming up and winning with an expected multiple championship winning team and he has to win 3 titles to 1 dirk title to hold similar weight.

There's just no arguing with this type of logic and irrationality. Let's agree to disagree because you're a cool dude, otherwise.

[Legends66NBA7]

Dirk had the reputation of a bonafide choker before he got his ring.

Also stupid, considering the reality of things.

[poido123]

Listen, if you want to, you can literally nitpick every single championship team and diminish and discredit the best player by saying if x didn't happen and y didn't happen exactly the way it did, player z didn't hit this crucial shot, etc

It means nothing. You are very much implying unless LeBron literally scored every single point during every single crucial moment, his accomplishments are irrelevant. You understand this, right?



Are you insane? If Dirk never won a ring, he would be lucky to be called a top 5 PF, much less argued towards being better than Malone and KG, which actually gets discussed.

His entire career was ridiculed for his 2007 debacle.

Many greats have had help from one time or another in their careers that lead to championships. Only that Lebron's have been a lot more pronounced and a lot more damaging to his reputation, when you take into account that he plays for a stacked team.

Allen's 3 last year was probably the most clutch shot in history(Heat won a title from it), while Lebron had a subpar series up to that point. We all know game 7 he showed everyone how good he can be when he steps up.

I never said Lebron's accomplishments should be irrelevant. But I do think his success should be taken with a grain of salt. After all, his accolades are coming on the back of easy conference runs and a stacked superteam. It's to be expected...

[HoopsFanNumero1]

Also stupid, considering the reality of things.

It was but that's just the reputation he had, and it's mainly due to people like the guy I quoted.

[poido123]

Are you an f'n idiot? Dirk had the reputation of a bonafide choker before he got his ring.

I swear all these idiot who keep babbling on about a player 'getting carried' piss me off. Did Dirk get carried by Jet in game 6 of the Finals?

Sure, he got criticism, but nothing on the scale of the hate Lebron recieved when choked 2011.

I was answering the point Moe made about Lebron being labeled a 'stat stuffer' if he stayed in Cleveland and never won a title...

[HoopsFanNumero1]

Sure, he got criticism, but nothing on the scale of the hate Lebron recieved when choked 2011.

I was answering the point Moe made about Lebron being labeled a 'stat stuffer' if he stayed in Cleveland and never won a title...

He's right

People were already making fun of his career in 2010 when he didn't win a championship with the Cavs team. I don't see how anyone can say winning no rings with Cleveland would've been better than winning two with the Heat. I don't recall him getting any top 10 talks back then I doubt he ever would if he even won one with the Cavs.

[poido123]

There's just no arguing with this type of logic and irrationality. Let's agree to disagree because you're a cool dude, otherwise.

You quoted 'part' of what I said.

I also explained that Lebron's talent and the fact that he IS better than Dirk will eventually place him higher(which he is now)on alltime lists, when he adds the accolades and accomplishments to his resume(MVP's, titles).

I know you don't appreciate that logic, but there's no denying it. If we are to compare players on alltime lists, the way they won their titles and how dominant they were comes into the conversation, like it or not.

[poido123]

He's right

People were already making fun of his career in 2010 when he didn't win a championship with the Cavs team. I don't see how anyone can say winning no rings with Cleveland would've been better than winning two with the Heat. I don't recall him getting any top 10 talks back then I doubt he ever would if he even won one with the Cavs.

If he won two titles as the man on the Cavs, with an average supporting cast? I definately think he would be in the conversation for top 5 alltime. If he won those titles with clutch moments on top of it? No doubt.

[K Xerxes]

Dirk's title is one of the most respected titles among all fans.

That one title may have propelled him a couple of spots higher on the alltime list, purely because of the way it was won and how dominant Dirk was.

Now, compare that to Lebron teaming up and winning with an expected multiple championship winning team and he has to win 3 titles to 1 dirk title to hold similar weight. Of course Lebron is a better player and he will be pushed higher on alltime lists, purely on his talent alone, the championships and accolades are just further proof that he deserves to be up there.

Many of you have forgiven Lebron or accepted the fact that he joined the Heat in that fashion, but I can never respect a player to of taken the shortcuts Lebron has taken, nor place him higher on alltime lists based on accolades alone. Call me a hater, but a lot of people feel the same way.

IMO what LeBron did in 2012 holds just as much weight as what Dirk did in 2011, if not more. His performance against Indiana and Boston were out of this world, particularly his two all time great games under immense pressure, and he took apart OKC in the finals. You can cling to reputation based on names, but what I saw in those series was LeBron dragging his team to victory with his cast either injured, underperforming or only performing in spurts. LeBron was the consistent factor throughout.

[poido123]

IMO what LeBron did in 2012 holds just as much weight as what Dirk did in 2011, if not more. His performance against Indiana and Boston were out of this world, particularly his two all time great games under immense pressure, and he took apart OKC in the finals. You can cling to reputation based on names, but what I saw in those series was LeBron dragging his team to victory with his cast either injured, underperforming or only performing in spurts. LeBron was the consistent factor throughout.

He was under pressure to perform against a very old Celtics team and one past it's best? That's what you term amazing?

Last year he played quite well against the Pacers, but what teams did the Heat contend with before that? It's easier to perform at a higher level when you have been afforded plenty of rest leading up to one big battle which was the Pacers last year and then eventually the Spurs. To me, he was pretty ordinary in the Spurs series, barring one game. Diaw was letting him have open jumpers all series

OKC is a a good matchup for Heat. They both can run and gun, but Heat do it better. Plus Lebron has the size advantage on Durant, and was able to bully him in the post.

[HoopsFanNumero1]

If he won two titles as the man on the Cavs, with an average supporting cast? I definately think he would be in the conversation for top 5 alltime. If he won those titles with clutch moments on top of it? No doubt.

I don't think so. Do people really consider Hakeem top 5?

[chips93]

This. LeBron had the most inspiring storyline playing for the Cavs, in the city he is from and it would of been one of the greatest moments if he were to deliver a title to his hometown . He could have chosen any players to come and join him in Cleveland but he rather go join Wades team. That's what makes separates him from the Great players IMO.

this is all true

but then when the playoffs came around, he played like an all time great, was clearly the best player on his team, and earned both his rings.

i think that made the whole 'lebron is robin to wade's batman' argument moot

[poido123]

I don't think so. Do people really consider Hakeem top 5?

Close enough to it, Hakeem sits at about 7 or 8 on most alltime lists, so yes it's possible for Lebron to of been top 5 alltime had he won rings with Cleveland.