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Old 02-17-2016, 10:37 AM   #16
Town's Town
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Default Re: Former NBA Player: Never Liked Kobe, Couldn’t Win On Own

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Stay losing Queens
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Old 02-17-2016, 10:46 AM   #17
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Default Re: Former NBA Player: Never Liked Kobe, Couldn’t Win On Own

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Originally Posted by TheMarkMadsen
Yeah, he won 2. Good ol' Kobe haters never the type to let facts get in the way

lmfao

just some random nba scrub who was jealous of Kobe, delete this garbage thread
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Old 02-17-2016, 11:25 AM   #18
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Default Re: Former NBA Player: Never Liked Kobe, Couldn’t Win On Own

It's common knowledge Kobe can't carry a team needs big men.
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Old 02-17-2016, 11:26 AM   #19
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Default Re: Former NBA Player: Never Liked Kobe, Couldn’t Win On Own

He didn't know Kobe got a title without Shaq. That's hard to believe. He is right though. Kobe didn't have a Jordan level impact. Kobe was just a very exciting player to watch because he took the tough shots like Jordan. The difference between Jordan's FG% and Kobe's is substantial. He's not even in the same ballpark if we're being real.

I'll always maintain that Kobe was a glorified Allen Iverson. I have doubts he could have got won win in the NBA Finals if he and AI switche teams though. Kobe was spoiled his entire NBA career. When he wasn't spoiled his team blew a 3-1 series lead to the Suns. That was Kobe as the man. Getting his ass kicked by Raja Bell.
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Old 02-17-2016, 11:37 AM   #20
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Default Re: Former NBA Player: Never Liked Kobe, Couldn’t Win On Own

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Originally Posted by RoseCity07
He didn't know Kobe got a title without Shaq. That's hard to believe. He is right though. Kobe didn't have a Jordan level impact. Kobe was just a very exciting player to watch because he took the tough shots like Jordan. The difference between Jordan's FG% and Kobe's is substantial. He's not even in the same ballpark if we're being real.

I'll always maintain that Kobe was a glorified Allen Iverson. I have doubts he could have got won win in the NBA Finals if he and AI switche teams though. Kobe was spoiled his entire NBA career. When he wasn't spoiled his team blew a 3-1 series lead to the Suns. That was Kobe as the man. Getting his ass kicked by Raja Bell.

Prime Kobe was very very good. I'm not in any way a Kobe stan, but Kobe was a much better player than Iverson, much greater defensive impact in prime and a much better team player.

Prime Kobe was very exciting, had great athleticism and driving ability, great understanding of the game and one of the best scorers ever.

Kobe was only held back by Kobe and that's the sad part. If he had not taken all those bad shots with 3 guys in his face, then how much better could he have been?

Kobe is a player who was not all time elite at anything - and I'm talking top 3 - in any category, to a large extent his career was lifted into all time great territory by his incredibly willpower and intelligence. Without his personality he could have been a TMac or Iverson, but that personality also made him too much of a lone gun, he simply did not trust anyone but himself.

Of course he is easily the second best shooting guard of all time, no doubt about it.

There are going to be less and less guys like Kobe, the kind of player who loves the game, studies it, understands it, plays it with great passion. Particularly the kind of shooting guard or guard that Kobe was, these guys are not going to be common in the future.
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Old 02-17-2016, 11:47 AM   #21
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Default Re: Former NBA Player: Never Liked Kobe, Couldn’t Win On Own

Every star player needs quantifiable help to win an NBA championship. It's a team game, after all.

That said, I've always been interested in how the two later Lakers titles were considered to be Kobe Bryant winning them on his own. Bryant was such a huge part of that team's success, but it seems Pau Gasol gets so heavily underrated here, in my opinion.

That Lakers team would have never won without Kobe Bryant. But they also would have never won with Pau Gasol. And that's okay, because that's how teams work.

As for Pollard's comments about Bryant making the team about him instead of the team, I think there's some potential truth there. Watching him play, particularly between 2004 and 2010, I often couldn't help but think about how difficult it might be to be on his team. Bryant was often the best option every time down the floor but there's a certain degree of lack of involvement among your teammates that could eventually provide a net negative.

Of course, the Lakers put together teams that could win many times over during that decade, so it's tough to say too much. But I've played with amateur Kobe's — guys capable of dropping 50+ in rec. games who were obviously the best players on the floor — and it's often tough, because they know they're the best option and it's tough to blame them for taking shots (especially when they hit at a solid clip) but the lack of involvement of others eventually drags the team down a level (even while still winning sometimes).

Comparing that type of play to a star who's focused the well-being of the team first is night and day, and often provides a wider range of success, from my experience. But again, the Lakers front office found a unit that could work under the right conditions, so to a large degree, it's all moot.
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Old 02-17-2016, 11:56 AM   #22
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Default Re: Former NBA Player: Never Liked Kobe, Couldn’t Win On Own

Kobe did have A LOT of help with his two runs.

I even used to think Pasol was FMVP in the last one. He also had Bynum who was the most unstoppable low post center since Shaq. He had Odom who was a great point forward, he had Artest a great defender.

Then post-Lakers happened and we see Gasol pout and take plays off on defense, because Chicago doesn't use him correctly. We see Bynum turning into a complete headcase. Odom ends up in hospital, Artest never does anything.

There's no guarantee you put Iverson or Lebron or TMac on those Laker teams that they win. They were great teams, but chemistry, playstyle, leadership, I don't think guys like Bynum and Gasol are going to be ok with Iverson and his not showing up for practise or chucking at crazy levels, Iverson was really antisocial on the court and off. Lebron, with needing all that space, you can't play Bynum who lumbers or Gasol now turned into Chris Bosh and therefore not giving defensive effort. Artest with Iverson lol, he'd shut down and get into trouble. Artest with Tmac the soft choker? Nah.

Kobe was the soul of that team and while he did shoot too many hero shots, he also played within a system and made the correct decisions most of the time.
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Old 02-17-2016, 12:14 PM   #23
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Default Re: Former NBA Player: Never Liked Kobe, Couldn’t Win On Own

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rake2204
Every star player needs quantifiable help to win an NBA championship. It's a team game, after all.

That said, I've always been interested in how the two later Lakers titles were considered to be Kobe Bryant winning them on his own. Bryant was such a huge part of that team's success, but it seems Pau Gasol gets so heavily underrated here, in my opinion.

That Lakers team would have never won without Kobe Bryant. But they also would have never won with Pau Gasol. And that's okay, because that's how teams work.

As for Pollard's comments about Bryant making the team about him instead of the team, I think there's some potential truth there. Watching him play, particularly between 2004 and 2010, I often couldn't help but think about how difficult it might be to be on his team. Bryant was often the best option every time down the floor but there's a certain degree of lack of involvement among your teammates that could eventually provide a net negative.

Of course, the Lakers put together teams that could win many times over during that decade, so it's tough to say too much. But I've played with amateur Kobe's — guys capable of dropping 50+ in rec. games who were obviously the best players on the floor — and it's often tough, because they know they're the best option and it's tough to blame them for taking shots (especially when they hit at a solid clip) but the lack of involvement of others eventually drags the team down a level (even while still winning sometimes).

Comparing that type of play to a star who's focused the well-being of the team first is night and day, and often provides a wider range of success, from my experience. But again, the Lakers front office found a unit that could work under the right conditions, so to a large degree, it's all moot.


It's the logic of the retarded, but it's only natural after Kobe was pegged as a byproduct of Shaq for half his career. Whatever happened next winning or losing would only enhance or decrease the notion.

But don't underestimate the Kobe hater , 6 years removed from the 2010 title we now pretend Bynum and Odom were All-stars. Pau was the only All-star those years and was only taken seriously once became a Laker.

Not saying the other two were flatout bums or overly great in their own right either, but I think the truth is somewhere in the middle.

People have to remember that aside from Gasol , the other two bigs best years came when we were already further away from being the contender we were the previous years. Odom won 6th man in 2011(swept by Dallas), Bynum earned his only All-star in 2012.
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Old 02-17-2016, 12:20 PM   #24
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Default Re: Former NBA Player: Never Liked Kobe, Couldn’t Win On Own

Scottie Pippen >>>> Paul Gasol
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Old 02-17-2016, 12:23 PM   #25
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Default Re: Former NBA Player: Never Liked Kobe, Couldn’t Win On Own

No one can win alone. Such a stupid way to evaluate someone's success.
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Old 02-17-2016, 01:55 PM   #26
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Default Re: Former NBA Player: Never Liked Kobe, Couldn’t Win On Own

Quote:
Originally Posted by RoseCity07
He didn't know Kobe got a title without Shaq. That's hard to believe. He is right though. Kobe didn't have a Jordan level impact. Kobe was just a very exciting player to watch because he took the tough shots like Jordan. The difference between Jordan's FG% and Kobe's is substantial. He's not even in the same ballpark if we're being real.

I'll always maintain that Kobe was a glorified Allen Iverson. I have doubts he could have got won win in the NBA Finals if he and AI switche teams though. Kobe was spoiled his entire NBA career. When he wasn't spoiled his team blew a 3-1 series lead to the Suns. That was Kobe as the man. Getting his ass kicked by Raja Bell.




Allen Iverson had Andre Iggy...Chris Webber....Kyle Corver and Aoron Mackie all on the same team.....

replace AI with Kobe and that team is a contender every year....with Iverson they barely win 40 games in the weak east...

GTFO with " replace Kobe with ________"...we can say that about every great player....


- every player Kobe played with from 04' - 07' dropped off the face of the planet once they left Kobe....

- even Snaq never looked as dominant without kobe.....meanwhile without Snaq Kobe put way better numbers and still nearly 3 peated.



next
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Old 02-17-2016, 02:03 PM   #27
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Default Re: Former NBA Player: Never Liked Kobe, Couldn’t Win On Own

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlphaWolf24


Allen Iverson had Andre Iggy...Chris Webber....Kyle Corver and Aoron Mackie all on the same team.....

replace AI with Kobe and that team is a contender every year....with Iverson they barely win 40 games in the weak east...

GTFO with " replace Kobe with ________"...we can say that about every great player....


- every player Kobe played with from 04' - 07' dropped off the face of the planet once they left Kobe....

- even Snaq never looked as dominant without kobe.....meanwhile without Snaq Kobe put way better numbers and still nearly 3 peated.



next
while being the side kick to Gasol
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Old 02-17-2016, 02:05 PM   #28
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Default Re: Former NBA Player: Never Liked Kobe, Couldn’t Win On Own

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlphaWolf24


Allen Iverson had Andre Iggy...Chris Webber....Kyle Corver and Aoron Mackie all on the same team.....

replace AI with Kobe and that team is a contender every year....with Iverson they barely win 40 games in the weak east...

GTFO with " replace Kobe with ________"...we can say that about every great player....


- every player Kobe played with from 04' - 07' dropped off the face of the planet once they left Kobe....

- even Snaq never looked as dominant without kobe.....meanwhile without Snaq Kobe put way better numbers and still nearly 3 peated.



next

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Old 02-17-2016, 02:09 PM   #29
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Default Re: Former NBA Player: Never Liked Kobe, Couldn’t Win On Own

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Originally Posted by AirBonner
while being the side kick to Gasol

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Old 02-17-2016, 02:15 PM   #30
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Default Re: Former NBA Player: Never Liked Kobe, Couldn’t Win On Own

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Originally Posted by 90sgoat
He also had Bynum who was the most unstoppable low post center since Shaq.

Andrew Bynum 09 playoffs = 6 & 4

Andrew Bynum 10 playoffs = 9 & 7

So unstoppable
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