Reminder: Wilt single handedly lost the 1969 finals

[SouBeachTalents]

No, it isn't. Here are some worse:

Kobe, 2000
Kobe, 2004
Duncan, 2014
Duncan, 2015
Shaq, 2006
Bird, 1981
LeBron, 2007
LeBron, 2011
Magic, 1983
Kareem, 1982
Kareem, 1987
Kareem, 1988
Kareem, 1989

Duncan didn't make the Finals in 2015, so if you're referencing his '13 Finals that's absurd, he played very well and would've won FMVP if Pop didn't stupidly bench him twice at the end of Game 6. Even 2014 he played perfectly fine in the Finals. The rest of those were certainly bad, and Wilt's '69 Finals should be added to the list. Even if he wasn't a primary scorer in L.A., having your ppg drop from 21 to 12 is terrible, especially in a series they barely lost

[SouBeachTalents]

Kareem's '87 Finals don't belong either, dude averaged 22/7 and dropped 32 in the Finals clincher at 40 fuccing years old

[Psileas]

Duncan didn't make the Finals in 2015, so if you're referencing his '13 Finals that's absurd, he played very well and would've won FMVP if Pop didn't stupidly bench him twice at the end of Game 6. Even 2014 he played perfectly fine in the Finals. The rest of those were certainly bad, and Wilt's '69 Finals should be added to the list. Even if he wasn't a primary scorer in L.A., having your ppg drop from 21 to 12 is terrible, especially in a series they barely lost

Playing a great series for his age doesn't put Duncan's performance above Wilt's in 1969. Wilt grabbed 25.0 rpg in the series, a 21.8 rate, while playing close to 48 mpg, in other words, with zero rest. His passing was close to matching Baylor's. He blocked 13 shots in game 1 alone, 7 shots in game 5 and some reports mention 10 more in game 7 (a game people blame Wilt on, and yet he ended up with 18/27/10 and, in the few minutes availeble on video, he is seen outplaying Russell apart from like 1 play when Russell outran him in offense). As for the ppg drop, you have to consider that, apart from Russell being the defender he was and limiting him, Wilt barely took any shots so that the hot Jerry West would remain hot. It's not as if he had thrown some brickfest, like 2004 Kobe, which really cost the Lakers that series. Like you mention, this is a series that went to the line. Wilt wasn't even scoring more than his series averages in the games the Lakers won, he was actually scoring less. The Lakers didn't base their success on Wilt's scoring and everyone knew this.
Except trolls and idiots like the OP.

[feyki]

No, it isn't. Here are some worse:

Kobe, 2000
Kobe, 2004
Duncan, 2014
Duncan, 2015 ( )
Shaq, 2006
Bird, 1981
LeBron, 2007
LeBron, 2011
Magic, 1983 ( 84 ? )
Kareem, 1982
Kareem, 1987
Kareem, 1988
Kareem, 1989

[Psileas]

Kareem's '87 Finals don't belong either, dude averaged 22/7 and dropped 32 in the Finals clincher at 40 fuccing years old

Since when is 7 anywhere near a great rebounding series for an all-time GOAT center standard? Not to mention the laughable 0.8 apg and the inferior defense. Heck, he didn't even shoot that great, either and Parish isn't quite as impactful defensively as Russell.
Yes, a great series for a 40 year old. But greater than Wilt's in 1969? Hell, no.

[Psileas]

Duncan, Kareem, look above. Great series for their age, not greater than Wilt's.
Kareem in '82 wasn't any better than Wilt, either. Still rebounded poorly, his scoring also dropped substantially, despite not facing any center with Russell's defensive tanacity. Didn't receive a single F.MVP vote, while 3 other of his teammates did. He simply had a better team around him.

Bird's '81 is the best series among them all, but given how this OP troll bases his whole moot point on Wilt's ppg to blame him, why not do the same with Bird? Bird simply didn't deliver scoring-wise in most of the Finals. Even lost the F.MVP convincingly to a teammate. But in the end, his team won, because they faced one of the weakest Finals opponents ever, a team with 1 superstar and a few good role players, not a freaking dynasty.

[SouBeachTalents]

Since when is 7 anywhere near a great rebounding series for an all-time GOAT center standard? Not to mention the laughable 0.8 apg and the inferior defense. Heck, he didn't even shoot that great, either and Parish isn't quite as impactful defensively as Russell.
Yes, a great series for a 40 year old. But greater than Wilt's in 1969? Hell, no.

Lol, well that's where you and I simply disagree, you have to take into account context, it's inane to not factor in age when making these evaluations. Kareem had a better Finals for where he was in his career, ditto Duncan, than Wilt did in '69. Looking at statlines you could argue LeBron's 2011 Finals were better than Kareem's '87 Finals, but 18/7/7 from a career 27 ppg scorer in his absolute prime winning 4 MVP's in 5 seasons is a legit bad performance for a player of his caliber

[Psileas]

Lol, well that's where you and I simply disagree, you have to take into account context, it's inane to not factor in age when making these evaluations. Kareem had a better Finals for where he was in his career, ditto Duncan, than Wilt did in '69. Looking at statlines you could argue LeBron's 2011 Finals were better than Kareem's '87 Finals, but 18/7/7 from a career 27 ppg scorer in his absolute prime winning 4 MVP's in 5 seasons is a legit bad performance for a player of his caliber

Obviously we disagree, except if we make an arbitrary age adjustment, which nobody has ever been able to make (or even tried for that matter). What if Wilt had come back at age 50 and averaged 4 ppg and 6 rpg? Would this make this season one of the greatest ever just because it would be great adjusted for age?

[ShawkFactory]

It seems weird to say "reminder" about something when your dad wasn't even potty trained when it happened.

[SouBeachTalents]

Obviously we disagree, except if we make an arbitrary age adjustment, which nobody has ever been able to make (or even tried for that matter). What if Wilt had come back at age 50 and averaged 4 ppg and 6 rpg? Would this make this season one of the greatest ever just because it would be great adjusted for age?

I'm not saying these Finals were "great", but when you factor in where Kareem/Duncan were in their careers, to say their Finals were "bad", I absolutely disagree with that, that was really my biggest issue with your list

[feyki]

Duncan, Kareem, look above. Great series for their age, not greater than Wilt's.
Kareem in '82 wasn't any better than Wilt, either. Still rebounded poorly, his scoring also dropped substantially, despite not facing any center with Russell's defensive tanacity. Didn't receive a single F.MVP vote, while 3 other of his teammates did. He simply had a better team around him.

Bird's '81 is the best series among them all, but given how this OP troll bases his whole moot point on Wilt's ppg to blame him, why not do the same with Bird? Bird simply didn't deliver scoring-wise in most of the Finals. Even lost the F.MVP convincingly to a teammate. But in the end, his team won, because they faced one of the weakest Finals opponents ever, a team with 1 superstar and a few good role players, not a freaking dynasty.

I don't get it , exactly . Are we talking about finals or entire years ?

Wilt was 32 years old . Kareem was 40-15-5-5 player in the finals when he was 32 . Comparing a 32 years old athlete to 38/39 , it's unfair . But i think not a big difference between them . 69 Wilt was 11/07 Lebron type finals performances .

For Bird , people criticize him for 15 PPG in the finals . But he was averaging 20-21 PPG in his first seasons . 80-83 Bird was more like all around , hustle beast rather than a scorer .

[Psileas]

I'm not saying these Finals were "great", but when you factor in where Kareem/Duncan were in their careers, to say their Finals were "bad", I absolutely disagree with that, that was really my biggest issue with your list

This wasn't a matter of whether they were bad, though. This was supposed to be a straight comparison to Wilt's 1969 series. And the point is, while it wasn't a great series among the GOAT players, it's a stretch to call it among the worst. Heck, even Russell's series wasn't statistically better, although he should get credit for his defense (ironically, holding Wilt to stats...still better than Russell's, just as was the case throughout their whole careers).

[Psileas]

I don't get it , exactly . Are we talking about finals or entire years ?

Wilt was 32 years old . Kareem was 40-15-5-5 player in the finals when he was 32 . Comparing a 32 years old athlete to 38/39 , it's unfair . But i think not a big difference between them . 69 Wilt was 11/07 Lebron type finals performances .

For Bird , people criticize him for 15 PPG in the finals . But he was averaging 20-21 PPG in his first season . 80-83 Bird was more like all around , hustle beast rather than scorer .

Finals. This is 1980 Kareem you mentioned, not 1982.
His 1980 Finals were absolutely great. 1982, not so much.

[feyki]

Finals. This is 1980 Kareem you mentioned, not 1982.
His 1980 Finals were absolutely great. 1982, not so much.

But , he was 34 . Wilt outscored by 11 to 34 against Kareem when he was 35 ( Kareem would beat him as like 35 to 20 when Wilt was 34 , if 71 would have been a close series ) .

[Psileas]

But , he was 34 . Wilt outscored by 11 to 34 against Kareem when he was 35 ( Kareem would beat him as like 35 to 20 when Wilt was 34 , if 71 would have been a close series ) .

This sends the discussion elsewhere, but this is a pretty baseless assumption. There's no evidence that Kareem ever held back against Wilt for any reason, especially when their matchups were so hyped. He certainly wasn't holding back in the 2 games the Bucks won easily in '72.