So what will be the perception of nowitzki if he doesnt win another ring?

[Kblaze8855]

That reminds me....

How many times has Manu been an all star the last 9-10 years hes been in the league? I know he was in 05 or 06. Ever make it again?

He feels like an all star year in year out type. But im think he made at most...2. Perhaps one.

Im gonna say two because I feel like I heard a lot about him around midseason last year with the Spurs being so hot.

[Jacks3]

How is my list any different then yours? Were some of the guys on my list past their primes? Yes but so were some people on yours. Were some of them only there for a year or two but so were quite a few of yours.

So you honestly think what KG had in Minny is comparable to the type of talent Dirk has played with for the past decade? You must be kidding me...

Anyway, none of this matters. In the end KG was just a flat-out better than Dirk. We're talking about giving you 22-24 pts/14-15 rbs/5-6 asts/2 stls/2 blks with DPOY defense every night. His longevity is similar to Dirk's. His peak is better. Dirk has no case over guys like Barkley/KG unless you're just one of those people who focus way too much on accolades/accomplishments/team success and not how good guys actually are.

[FF1]

If you count it J kidd the year he was traded for devin harris.

Forgot about that. It's not like Kidd was still truely playing at an all-star level especially since his stats dropped off in Dallas, but since it's technically true I'll give you that.

So since 04 Dirk has had two season where he has played with 1 other all star (replacement Josh Howard and an old Kidd) and 5 season with no other all stars. On top of that, until this year his starting Center has been Lafrentz, Shawn Bradley, Diop, Dampier, etc.

People are acting like he's been playing with the leagues best.

[97 bulls]

Forgot about that. It's not like Kidd was still truely playing at an all-star level especially since his stats dropped off in Dallas, but since it's technically true I'll give you that.

So since 04 Dirk has had two season where he has played with 1 other all star (replacement Josh Howard and an old Kidd) and 5 season with no other all stars. On top of that, until this year his starting Center has been Lafrentz, Shawn Bradley, Diop, Dampier, etc.

People are acting like he's been playing with the leagues best.

What about steve nash? The two-time mvp and future hofer.

[raiderfan19]

What about steve nash? The two-time mvp and future hofer.

I think you missed the since 04 part

[FF1]

What about steve nash? The two-time mvp and future hofer.

I said since 04. And I talked about Nash in my earlier list of All-Stars Dirk has played with. With Finley and Nash, they were in the WCF and doing alright against the Spurs when Dirk went down.

But lets not pretend that Nash was playing like an MVP with the Mavs. It's pretty well known that Nash changed into a different monster when he went to the PHX. He has admitted as much and everyone who watched Nash a lot on both teams admit as much as well.

Anyway, year by year here is the all-stars Dirk has played since Dirk himself was an all-star:

2002: Nash
2003: Nash
2004: None
2005: None
2006: None
2007: Josh Howard (replacement)
2008: Jason Kidd (Got voted in while he was with the nets)
2009: None
2010: Jason Kidd (replacement)
2011: None

So as you can see, since 03 there has only been 1 year where Dirk has played with someone who was actually put on the all-star team from initial fan or coach voting. And even that year, he made it in the east where he probably wouldn't have made it in the west.

[yeaaaman]

Aside from the discussion, I still don't understand how you you fluke your way to a championship. This is the NBA, not a half court shot for a million dollars.

[97 bulls]

You guys need to quit the "dirk didn't have good teammates" nonsense. I went back starting from his second year in the league. He's had some damn good players.

00
Finley (one of the better SGs in the league)
Ceballos
Nash (one of the best pgs in the league)

01
Nash
Finley
Juwan Howard

02
Finley
Nash
Van Exel
Raef Lafrenz

03
Finley
Van Exel
Nash
Bell
Lafrenz

04
Finley
Jamison
Nash
Atione Walker

05
Finley
Jason terry
Josh Howard

06
Terry
Howard
Stackhouse

07
Howard
Terry
Stack

08
Kidd (still one of the best pgs in the league.)
Howard
Terry

09
Howard
Terry
Kidd

10
Coron butler
Terry
Marion
Kidd

He's played alongside two pgs that are for sure hofers. Kidd may not be the same player offensively, but he never really was a bigtime scorer to begin with. He's made a name for himself with his ability to run a team and his defense. And 11 was no different.

And he's played 4 seasons with steve nash

[Jacks3]

Yeah, he's been on stacked teams after stacked teams.

[raiderfan19]

Iv never said dirk had no talent around him. I simply said that the talent is comparable to the talent kg had around him

[97 bulls]

Aside from the discussion, I still don't understand how you you fluke your way to a championship. This is the NBA, not a half court shot for a million dollars.

Lol good point. I used fluke for lack of a better term. But let's be honest. the lakers weren't as hungry this year and it showed in the playoffs. They could've lost to an injured hornets team. I'm not gonna poke hole in the rest of the teams dallas played.

[97 bulls]

Iv never said dirk had no talent around him. I simply said that the talent is comparable to the talent kg had around him

I think dirks talent was better. He's played alongside two hofers. And two of the best pgs in the league.

[FF1]

You guys need to quit the "dirk didn't have good teammates" nonsense. I went back starting from his second year in the league. He's had some damn good players.

00
Finley (one of the better SGs in the league)
Ceballos
Nash (one of the best pgs in the league)

01
Nash
Finley
Juwan Howard

02
Finley
Nash
Van Exel
Raef Lafrenz

03
Finley
Van Exel
Nash
Bell
Lafrenz

04
Finley
Jamison
Nash
Atione Walker

05
Finley
Jason terry
Josh Howard

06
Terry
Howard
Stackhouse

07
Howard
Terry
Stack

08
Kidd (still one of the best pgs in the league.)
Howard
Terry

09
Howard
Terry
Kidd

10
Coron butler
Terry
Marion
Kidd

He's played alongside two pgs that are for sure hofers. Kidd may not be the same player offensively, but he never really was a bigtime scorer to begin with. He's made a name for himself with his ability to run a team and his defense. And 11 was no different.

And he's played 4 seasons with steve nash

First of all, Steve Nash wasn't "Steve Nash" when he played for the Mavs. As a matter of fact, the year before he went to the Suns he didn't even make the all-star team! Steve Nash even in his "MVP" form on stacked teams, by the way, hasn't won shit.

Lets look through that list.

Lafrenz - lol
Van Exel and Terry - Both great 6th men.
Jamison and Walker - Not all-star caliber at that point and it was a failed ONE YEAR experiment with Nellie trying to redefine basketball.
Finley after 03 was past his prime
Kidd and Marion and Stackhouse were all past their prime while they've been with Dirk, although they play their rolls VERY well

It's easy to throw names out their and hype them up to their own prime, but if more people had actually been that "good" when they played with Dirk, he would have had a lot more all-star teammates. It's like saying "Last year's Celtics really underachieved! They had Rondo, KG, Allen, Pierce, Shaq, J'Oneal. " You could say Kobe had good teammates during those bad years by saying "ya he had Caron Butler and Lamar Odom" but that doesn't tell the whole story.

[RRR3]

First of all, Steve Nash wasn't "Steve Nash" when he played for the Mavs. As a matter of fact, the year before he went to the Suns he didn't even make the all-star team!

Lets look through that list.

Van Exel and Terry - Both great 6th men.
Jamison and Walker - Not all-star caliber at that point
Finley after 03 was past his prime
Kidd and Marion and Stackhouse were all past their prime while they've been with Dirk, although they play their rolls VERY well

It's easy to throw names out their and hype them up to their own prime, but if more people had actually been that "good" when they played with Dirk, he would have had a lot more all-star teammates.

Nonsense. Jamison averaged 25/9, 20/7 and 22/7 in the year years preceding his season with the Mavericks. With the Mavs he still put up 15/6 as the 6th man. Immediately after this season, he went to the Wizards and put up 20/8, 21/9, 20/8, 21/10, and 22/9 in the following 5 seasons. LOL @ you attempting to make him look like some rookie scrub. And Finley still put up 19/5/3 in 04, and 16/4/3 in 05.

[Kblaze8855]

Iv never said dirk had no talent around him. I simply said that the talent is comparable to the talent kg had around him

Thats the kind of statement that invalidates entire topics worth of otherwise reasonable points.