How would you rank Jordan's and Lebron's Finals Performances?

[tpols]

it's really unfair to lump 96 MJ in w/ 07 and 11 Bron

[SamuraiSWISH]

93 MJ
91 MJ
16 Bron
92 MJ
15 Bron
12 Bron
97 MJ
13 Bron
14 Bron
96 MJ
11 Bron
07 Bron

[sportjames23]

91-98 MJ








Any Finals Bron

[SouBeachTalents]

91-98 MJ








Any Finals Bron

LeBron's Finals this year were easily better than Jordan's '96-'98 Finals, and on par with his '91-'93 Finals

[TheWinningFam]

91-98 MJ








Any Finals Bron

2016 warriors > Any team jordan faced

[ShawkFactory]

91-98 MJ








Any Finals Bron

Stop it douche

[plowking]

16 Bron is the best for me.

[Elosha]

16 Bron is the best for me.

You've got a valid argument, no doubt. To come back against a 73-9 team down 3-1 in the Finals is unprecedented. And obviously he had great overall stats.

Still -- the reason I have it behind a couple of MJ's Finals is:

(1) Golden State really wasn't as good a team as the regular season suggested. Complete loss of focus in the playoffs, up and down performances, lack of killer instinct in the Finals, and Curry played well below his standards, throughout the playoffs and most of all in the Finals. Most stars numbers take a hit, understandably, in the playoffs, but the greatest can often elevate their numbers overall. Curry's inability to do that this year (and also in last season's playoffs) is indicative to me that he's not quite as great as advertised. Streaky, as is Klay, which is not really the mark of an all-time great. And when the best players aren't as good as advertised, the team will not be as good as predicted.

(2) As great as Lebron played overall, I cautiously note that he played fairly mediocre (by his standards) in the three losses. That's NOT to take away from his incredible come from behind greatness in games 5-7, but a better team would have closed the Cavs out with a 3-1 lead. As great as Lebron played in games 5-7, if Curry and Klay could have just played AVERAGE in games 5 - 7, the Cavs would have lost. The Warriors' overall poor play in the last three games is probably a bigger factor as to the Cavs championship than even Lebron's heroics. (And yes, I know the Cavs played great defense overall, but Golden State (Curry especially) choked and missed lots of opens shots they hit all year).

Golden State to me is a bit of an enigma and a case of lost potential. To go 73-9 in the regular season and then 15-9 in the playoffs is wildly inconsistent. Even if they would have beaten the Cavs in 7, I would never rank them as the greatest team. They simply weren't dominant when it really counted. So it's certainly valid to point out that Lebron beat a 73-9 team, but let's not overstate it. OKC had already shown they were highly vulnerable to individual talent, and the Cavs proved the Warriors could choke, lose focus, and blow a lead. I already had alarm bells in my head when Green got himself suspended and Klay spent his time after game 5 mocking Lebron. They literally relaxed and began to strut around and talk trash about one of the best players of all time before they had won. Not a sign of greatness.

[K Xerxes]

Just in terms of level of play and performance:

91-93 MJ
16 LeBron
12 LeBron
97 MJ
15 LeBron
13 LeBron
98 MJ
96 MJ
07 LeBron
11 LeBron

[Da_Realist]

93 MJ
91 MJ
16 Bron
92 MJ
15 Bron
12 Bron
97 MJ
13 Bron
14 Bron
96 MJ
11 Bron
07 Bron

No way is 97 MJ under 15 Lebron. Lebron couldn't hit a jumpshot to save his life. Lebron's style accumulates numbers whether he plays well or not. Especially here since Kyrie went down and the Cavs slowed it down and forced Lebron to do everything with no pressure (If he won, great. If he lost, so what? Kyrie was injured.)

Lebron WAS the offense so every possession = some stat.

[Da_Realist]

You've got a valid argument, no doubt. To come back against a 73-9 team down 3-1 in the Finals is unprecedented. And obviously he had great overall stats.

Still -- the reason I have it behind a couple of MJ's Finals is:

(1) Golden State really wasn't as good a team as the regular season suggested. Complete loss of focus in the playoffs, up and down performances, lack of killer instinct in the Finals, and Curry played well below his standards, throughout the playoffs and most of all in the Finals. Most stars numbers take a hit, understandably, in the playoffs, but the greatest can often elevate their numbers overall. Curry's inability to do that this year (and also in last season's playoffs) is indicative to me that he's not quite as great as advertised. Streaky, as is Klay, which is not really the mark of an all-time great. And when the best players aren't as good as advertised, the team will not be as good as predicted.

(2) As great as Lebron played overall, I cautiously note that he played fairly mediocre (by his standards) in the three losses. That's NOT to take away from his incredible come from behind greatness in games 5-7, but a better team would have closed the Cavs out with a 3-1 lead. As great as Lebron played in games 5-7, if Curry and Klay could have just played AVERAGE in games 5 - 7, the Cavs would have lost. The Warriors' overall poor play in the last three games is probably a bigger factor as to the Cavs championship than even Lebron's heroics. (And yes, I know the Cavs played great defense overall, but Golden State (Curry especially) choked and missed lots of opens shots they hit all year).

Golden State to me is a bit of an enigma and a case of lost potential. To go 73-9 in the regular season and then 15-9 in the playoffs is wildly inconsistent. Even if they would have beaten the Cavs in 7, I would never rank them as the greatest team. They simply weren't dominant when it really counted. So it's certainly valid to point out that Lebron beat a 73-9 team, but let's not overstate it. OKC had already shown they were highly vulnerable to individual talent, and the Cavs proved the Warriors could choke, lose focus, and blow a lead. I already had alarm bells in my head when Green got himself suspended and Klay spent his time after game 5 mocking Lebron. They literally relaxed and began to strut around and talk trash about one of the best players of all time before they had won. Not a sign of greatness.

True. GSW was not an all time great team. If they were, they wouldn't have lost to Cleveland or come close to losing to OKC. They were a good team that hid their flaws during the regular season. No all time great team would have lost to the 16 Cavs.

This is why all the old timers were snapping at GSW even while they were rattling off 20 game win streaks. They knew.

[Dragonyeuw]

2016 warriors > Any team jordan faced

The Warriors team that blew through the regular season wasn't playing at nearly that level in playoffs, notably Curry. Take them and put them back in the 90's against the 92/93 Knicks, with Ewing protecting the rim, Oakley and Mason playing intimidator roles, and gritty defenders like Starks, Blackman,Wilkins, and Harper under those rules, and Curry folds up in the fetal position. Considering he failed the test of what passes for 'physical play' in the finals. The Warriors are very much a product of modern rules and the over-infatuation with the 3pointer. There's a reason the 'cranky' old-timers were saying Curry wouldn't be as successful against the more physical style of the late 80's/early-mid 90's. Sure they'd blow most teams off the floor during the regular season with the 3point barrage, but match them against really physical teams or teams with superior individual talent( MJ, Durant/Westbrook, Bron, Kyrie) and see what happens. Cleveland in the final 3 games simply built on what OKC has already exposed in the conference finals.

[Dragonyeuw]

You've got a valid argument, no doubt. To come back against a 73-9 team down 3-1 in the Finals is unprecedented. And obviously he had great overall stats.

Still -- the reason I have it behind a couple of MJ's Finals is:

(1) Golden State really wasn't as good a team as the regular season suggested. Complete loss of focus in the playoffs, up and down performances, lack of killer instinct in the Finals, and Curry played well below his standards, throughout the playoffs and most of all in the Finals. Most stars numbers take a hit, understandably, in the playoffs, but the greatest can often elevate their numbers overall. Curry's inability to do that this year (and also in last season's playoffs) is indicative to me that he's not quite as great as advertised. Streaky, as is Klay, which is not really the mark of an all-time great. And when the best players aren't as good as advertised, the team will not be as good as predicted.

(2) As great as Lebron played overall, I cautiously note that he played fairly mediocre (by his standards) in the three losses. That's NOT to take away from his incredible come from behind greatness in games 5-7, but a better team would have closed the Cavs out with a 3-1 lead. As great as Lebron played in games 5-7, if Curry and Klay could have just played AVERAGE in games 5 - 7, the Cavs would have lost. The Warriors' overall poor play in the last three games is probably a bigger factor as to the Cavs championship than even Lebron's heroics. (And yes, I know the Cavs played great defense overall, but Golden State (Curry especially) choked and missed lots of opens shots they hit all year).

Golden State to me is a bit of an enigma and a case of lost potential. To go 73-9 in the regular season and then 15-9 in the playoffs is wildly inconsistent. Even if they would have beaten the Cavs in 7, I would never rank them as the greatest team. They simply weren't dominant when it really counted. So it's certainly valid to point out that Lebron beat a 73-9 team, but let's not overstate it. OKC had already shown they were highly vulnerable to individual talent, and the Cavs proved the Warriors could choke, lose focus, and blow a lead. I already had alarm bells in my head when Green got himself suspended and Klay spent his time after game 5 mocking Lebron. They literally relaxed and began to strut around and talk trash about one of the best players of all time before they had won. Not a sign of greatness.

Good post.

[bond10]

You've got a valid argument, no doubt. To come back against a 73-9 team down 3-1 in the Finals is unprecedented. And obviously he had great overall stats.

Still -- the reason I have it behind a couple of MJ's Finals is:

(1) Golden State really wasn't as good a team as the regular season suggested. Complete loss of focus in the playoffs, up and down performances, lack of killer instinct in the Finals, and Curry played well below his standards, throughout the playoffs and most of all in the Finals. Most stars numbers take a hit, understandably, in the playoffs, but the greatest can often elevate their numbers overall. Curry's inability to do that this year (and also in last season's playoffs) is indicative to me that he's not quite as great as advertised. Streaky, as is Klay, which is not really the mark of an all-time great. And when the best players aren't as good as advertised, the team will not be as good as predicted.

(2) As great as Lebron played overall, I cautiously note that he played fairly mediocre (by his standards) in the three losses. That's NOT to take away from his incredible come from behind greatness in games 5-7, but a better team would have closed the Cavs out with a 3-1 lead. As great as Lebron played in games 5-7, if Curry and Klay could have just played AVERAGE in games 5 - 7, the Cavs would have lost. The Warriors' overall poor play in the last three games is probably a bigger factor as to the Cavs championship than even Lebron's heroics. (And yes, I know the Cavs played great defense overall, but Golden State (Curry especially) choked and missed lots of opens shots they hit all year).

Golden State to me is a bit of an enigma and a case of lost potential. To go 73-9 in the regular season and then 15-9 in the playoffs is wildly inconsistent. Even if they would have beaten the Cavs in 7, I would never rank them as the greatest team. They simply weren't dominant when it really counted. So it's certainly valid to point out that Lebron beat a 73-9 team, but let's not overstate it. OKC had already shown they were highly vulnerable to individual talent, and the Cavs proved the Warriors could choke, lose focus, and blow a lead. I already had alarm bells in my head when Green got himself suspended and Klay spent his time after game 5 mocking Lebron. They literally relaxed and began to strut around and talk trash about one of the best players of all time before they had won. Not a sign of greatness.

This.

[ArbitraryWater]

2016 LeBron
1991 Jordan
1993 Jordan
2015 LeBron
1992 Jordan
2012 LeBron
1997 Jordan
2013 LeBron
1998 Jordan
1996 Jordan
2007 LeBron
2011 LeBron