Cavs need to trade Love for players like

[DMAVS41]

Iirc arent you one of those people that constantly complains about "how weak the east is"?

So if that's the case why are using his stats against "weak East" competition and downplaying his horrible performance against his first "real West" competiton?

And I'm not even going to debate defense, dude is terrible all around. Horrible help defense, horrible PnR defense, horrible on ball defense, horrible post defense. Whoever he's guarding gets their play called.

No, he really isn't terrible all around. He's terrible in this series against the Warriors defensively. There is a big difference.

Jesus christ people...the Warriors are one of the best teams ever. They really might have the two best shooters in NBA history. They have one of the most versatile and hard to stop offenses that is made up of long athletic wing players. You couldn't design a team in a lab harder for guys like Kevin Love to try and guard.


As for the other part of your post...I posted that in direct response to someone saying Love had been struggling all playoffs before the finals. Had nothing to do with anything other than that.

[morbius]

If Cavs don't take the title (which they almost certainly won't) Love is going to NY for Carmelo and Irving is going to LAC for CP3 to create a team of LeBron's super-friends. Some other assets might fill out those trades. We'll see if Wade comes from Miami. That team will have the tiniest of windows to contend, but at least James will be happy.

[HALLandOATES]

The above are the kind of posts that make conversations impossible.

Kevin Love is "just not a good player"...okay...so then if he's not good...then he must be bad.

And that is just nonsense.

Yes...Love was just terrible putting up 17/10/2 56% TS in the playoffs before this series. That is just a sign of a bad player.

Being a distant 3rd option is going to cause inconsistency....how many times must we go down this road. You can't be relegated to being a 3rd option and be asked to do things not in your wheelhouse and perform consistently like someone put into a perfect role for them. It's just idiotic to expect a guy like Love to consistently perform when he's playing a role where he is an afterthought.

As for his defense...it's always going to be a struggle, but he is far better than he gets credit for overall. Doesn't make him a defensive stopper...doesn't even make him good. But he is not some terrible defensive player overall. Again...you can't judge him exclusively against a team pretty much designed to make him look silly.

And I'm not arguing the Cavs keep him. I thought they should have traded him...I was skeptical of the initial trade without getting Dieng back...who would be a nice asset for this Cavs team. But you can't put a player in a terrible position on both ends...and expect them to perform great every night.

Imagine taking Lebron off the ball...make him a spot up jump shooter 3rd option on offense. He would look like a dramatically different player.

Now, for Love, it's worse than that....and I've written this exact thing before. Love is a conundrum. He might be only able to excel as a first option. But he's not good enough to be the first option and win...so he can't do that. But then if you give him a lesser role...he doesn't do the things you need role players to consistently do well enough to warrant his price tag on a team.

I've literally written that 10 times on here and been accused in the past of being a Love hater.

But we can't pretend like a player isn't good just because of a nightmare match up while playing a role that does nothing to help them play optimally.

Love is definitely a good player...but if he wants to play a big role in winning the title against the Warriors...that team better have Whiteside, Gobert, or DJ.

That's exactly how I feel about him to. Good post

[ALBballer]

Jimmy Bulter for Kevin Love.

Bulls say no?

[DMAVS41]

Jimmy Bulter for Kevin Love.

Bulls say no?

If they are for sure moving Butler...and don't want a complete rebuild. They'd be hard pressed to get a better return than that. Question honestly would be do the Cavs want Butler...not sure Butler would be too happy being a distant 3rd option.

[KingPush]

Love for Butler

[RedBlackAttack]

Not sure about that.

Pretty much co-sign with DMavs arguments in this thread and would echo what he has said. Love would be so much more important playing against a team with traditional bigs. Frankly, that's the scary part about trading him. With the Cavs' luck, we'll trade Love for a couple of wings and SA or OKC will be in the 2017 Finals.

You put him on the floor with guys like Adams, Kanter and even Roberson to a lesser extent and he'd be producing. He can pull those guys out to the perimeter where they're not accustomed to defending and he can really create matchup problems. Meanwhile, he's an excellent passer when given space to operate and said matchups to exploit.

The problem is, Golden State is too small and too athletic. They take Love's major advantage on this Cavs team away, which is his ability to either take bigs away from the basket and out of their comfort zone or exploit smaller guys who aren't accustomed to defending players with post games.

The Warriors have little guys who can defend anywhere on the court and their constant switching has even taken his spot-up jumpers away.

For all of the heat he is taking, his defense hasn't even been bad in The Finals for the most part. Sure, he's slow afoot and GSW will occasionally work him in the P&R because of it, but they do that to everyone. He is playing with intensity and effort on that end, which is why -- despite not doing anything offensively other than space the court last night -- he was not a net negative (actually had the third highest +/- I believe).


A coach like Brad Stevens would turn Love right back into the player he was in Minnesota, except better... because that Celtics team is a pretty impressive young group and Stevens is an incredible coach who badly needs an offensively versatile big man.

It's really the perfect fit and Crowder would be a great addition going against a team like the Warriors.... but I just worry about building a team to try and beat one specific other team.

The Cavs are really freaking good right now. In a lot of other years in the NBA, this team would win a championship. It just so happens that they're coinciding with this crazy Golden State team, which is a matchup nightmare for them and for Love in particular.

The grass is always greener.

Plus, I really hate trading guys when their value is low. In a perfect world and against the right opponent, Love would look worth Crowder and Avery Bradley or some other dynamite combination.

Like DMavs said, his play in The Finals has cost the Cavs leverage if they do want to eventually trade Love.

[avonbarksdale]

i literally cant understand how he put up those godly stats on the t wolves

[DMAVS41]

i literally cant understand how he put up those godly stats on the t wolves

Why?

[RedBlackAttack]

i literally cant understand how he put up those godly stats on the t wolves

He's good at basketball.

[G-train]

i literally cant understand how he put up those godly stats on the t wolves

He was the main man, and the NBA has changed a bit in that few years as well.

[DMAVS41]

Pretty much co-sign with DMavs arguments in this thread and would echo what he has said. Love would be so much more important playing against a team with traditional bigs. Frankly, that's the scary part about trading him. With the Cavs' luck, we'll trade Love for a couple of wings and SA or OKC will be in the 2017 Finals.

You put him on the floor with guys like Adams, Kanter and even Roberson to a lesser extent and he'd be producing. He can pull those guys out to the perimeter where they're not accustomed to defending and he can really create matchup problems. Meanwhile, he's an excellent passer when given space to operate and said matchups to exploit.

The problem is, Golden State is too small and too athletic. They take Love's major advantage on this Cavs team away, which is his ability to either take bigs away from the basket and out of their comfort zone or exploit smaller guys who aren't accustomed to defending players with post games.

The Warriors have little guys who can defend anywhere on the court and their constant switching has even taken his spot-up jumpers away.

For all of the heat he is taking, his defense hasn't even been bad in The Finals for the most part. Sure, he's slow afoot and GSW will occasionally work him in the P&R because of it, but they do that to everyone. He is playing with intensity and effort on that end, which is why -- despite not doing anything offensively other than space the court last night -- he was not a net negative (actually had the third highest +/- I believe).


A coach like Brad Stevens would turn Love right back into the player he was in Minnesota, except better... because that Celtics team is a pretty impressive young group and Stevens is an incredible coach who badly needs an offensively versatile big man.

It's really the perfect fit and Crowder would be a great addition going against a team like the Warriors.... but I just worry about building a team to try and beat one specific other team.

The Cavs are really freaking good right now. In a lot of other years in the NBA, this team would win a championship. It just so happens that they're coinciding with this crazy Golden State team, which is a matchup nightmare for them and for Love in particular.

The grass is always greener.

Plus, I really hate trading guys when their value is low. In a perfect world and against the right opponent, Love would look worth Crowder and Avery Bradley or some other dynamite combination.

Like DMavs said, his play in The Finals has cost the Cavs leverage if they do want to eventually trade Love.

Hell, stranger things have happened, maybe you guys finally catch a break for one damn time and the Cavs do something historic.

I wouldn't be so quick to trade Love either...although I do think I would unless Lebron flat out refused to play more of the 4 going forward. Because that really is where he needs to play half of his minutes or more now anyway.

But like you said...if nobody is offering much for Love. You just keep him...knowing that you have a guy that can average 15/10 while drawing people far from the basket...who can also step up and do a lot more if there is an injury.

We all get it...Love looks really bad right now. It was expected though...hell, I think we talked about him coming off the bench and playing 16 or so minutes back in January if it was the Warriors again. But at the same time...I hate how everyone ignores that he actually has played some good defense for stretches in this series. He's actually had some nice perimeter contests on Curry and Klay...and he's rotated to the rim a number of times to prevent layups as well. Has he been good? No, but he's also not Channing Frye out there. Like...have people just decided to ignore what Frye looks like out there trying to stay with those guys on switches and in the pick and roll? Like...you want to actually see unplayable...that's it.

[Goofsta Knicca]

Jae Crowder pretty much is the perfect fit for this Cavs team. Obviously you can't do that straight up...and unfortunately Love's value is really low right now for the Cavs.

Smart basketball people realize he's way better than what we are seeing in the finals, but will also use the finals as leverage.

If I'm Boston...maybe the Cavs would want Amir Johnson...maybe the Celtics pick up his team option and send Amir, Crowder, Hunter, and the Dallas pick for Love and Kaun.

Then Celtics go hard after Whiteside or Drummond I guess. Whiteside would be a better fit next to Love.

But Celtics probably don't do that now given Love's play in the finals and just with how valuable guys like Crowder have become.

I think the trade market for Love will be better after free agency this year when some of the contracts will likely be insane. Love at 4 years 92 million or whatever it is will look a lot better in 2 months imo.

White dood to Boston... black dood wit dreadlocks to Cleveland. Ethnically it makez sense.

[Poetry]

3 point shooters.

They were originally going after Klay a few years ago. Klay is one of the few star players that would have been perfect for LeBron ball.