Peak Shaq played awful against quality centers...

[dankok8]

Here are Shaq's splits against HOF centers in his 1999-2000 season.

2 games vs. Patrick Ewing: 38.5 ppg, 11.5 rpg, 3.5 apg on 54.2 %FG/56.1 %TS
2 games vs. Ben Wallace: 33.0 ppg, 13.0 rpg, 6.0 apg on 68.4 %FG/68.0 %TS
3 games vs. David Robinson: 28.3 ppg, 8.3 rpg, 2.3 apg on 63.6 %FG/63.1 %TS
2 games vs. Alonzo Mourning: 22.5 ppg, 11.5 rpg, 5.0 apg on 43.6 %FG/48.0 %TS
4 games vs. Arvydas Sabonis: 20.5 ppg, 13.0 rpg, 3.5 apg on 50.0 %FG/49.7 %TS
3 games vs. Hakeem Olajuwon: 19.0 ppg, 13.0 rpg, 3.0 apg on 49.1 %FG/48.2 %TS
2 games vs. Dikembe Mutombo: 16.0 ppg, 12.0 rpg, 3.5 apg on 39.5 %FG/37.0 %TS

in 18 season games against HOF centers: 24.7 ppg, 11.8 rpg, 3.7 apg on 47.8 %FG/49.1 %TS

In 79 season games against the entire league: 29.7 ppg, 13.6 rpg, 3.8 apg on 57.4 FG%/57.8 TS%

2000 WCF 7 games against Arvydas Sabonis: 25.9 ppg, 12.4 rpg, 4.3 apg on 53.7 %FG/55.0 %TS




Mind you except Mourning and Mutombo none of those other guys are even in their primes. This honestly makes me reconsider his place on the all-time list a bit.

[Mgamer20o0]

what are the numbers vs yao ming?

[SouBeachTalents]

what are the numbers vs yao ming?

Yao wasn't in the league in 2000

[tpols]

doesn't matter.. his stats against todd mccalough and Jason Collins >

[32MJ32]

Here are Shaq's splits against HOF centers in his 1999-2000 season.

2 games vs. Patrick Ewing: 38.5 ppg, 11.5 rpg, 3.5 apg on 54.2 %FG/56.1 %TS
2 games vs. Ben Wallace: 33.0 ppg, 13.0 rpg, 6.0 apg on 68.4 %FG/68.0 %TS
3 games vs. David Robinson: 28.3 ppg, 8.3 rpg, 2.3 apg on 63.6 %FG/63.1 %TS
2 games vs. Alonzo Mourning: 22.5 ppg, 11.5 rpg, 5.0 apg on 43.6 %FG/48.0 %TS
4 games vs. Arvydas Sabonis: 20.5 ppg, 13.0 rpg, 3.5 apg on 50.0 %FG/49.7 %TS
3 games vs. Hakeem Olajuwon: 19.0 ppg, 13.0 rpg, 3.0 apg on 49.1 %FG/48.2 %TS
2 games vs. Dikembe Mutombo: 16.0 ppg, 12.0 rpg, 3.5 apg on 39.5 %FG/37.0 %TS

in 18 season games against HOF centers: 24.7 ppg, 11.8 rpg, 3.7 apg on 47.8 %FG/49.1 %TS

In 79 season games against the entire league: 29.7 ppg, 13.6 rpg, 3.8 apg on 57.4 FG%/57.8 TS%

2000 WCF 7 games against Arvydas Sabonis: 25.9 ppg, 12.4 rpg, 4.3 apg on 53.7 %FG/55.0 %TS




Mind you except Mourning and Mutombo none of those other guys are even in their primes. This honestly makes me reconsider his place on the all-time list a bit.

This is your definition of "awful?"

And you conveniently omit he averaged 38 and 17 in the 2000 Finals against Rik Smits and Dale Davis, both of whom were All-Stars.

For the 2001 Finals he averaged 33 and 16 - against Mutombo

Other that that, your point is totally valid

[dankok8]

This is your definition of "awful?"

And you conveniently omit he averaged 38 and 17 in the 2000 Finals against Rik Smits and Dale Davis, both of whom were All-Stars.

For the 2001 Finals he averaged 33 and 16 - against Mutombo

Other that that, your point is totally valid

Ok maybe awful is an exaggeration but subpar...

Rik Smits wasn't an all-star that season and Dale Davis averaged 10/10 and played under 29 minutes a game. Not exactly convincing.

[90sgoat]

I've touched on this before and you're rigth OP.

Shaq's dominance is greatly overrated. Not as an individual player, but as a winning team player. Shaq with a team of Elden Campell, Robert Horry, Eddie Jones, Nick Van Excel, Rick Fox and Kobe Bryant got SWEPT - read that again S-W-E-P-T against the Utah Jazz with old men Stockton and Malone and little else.

MJ of course took care of those guys quite easily afterwards.

Fact is that Shaq had some big issues, free throw shooting being one, but more commonly having problems in getting good position early in the shot clock. His physical dominance, while definitely the biggest, was not so that he could just bully guys like Mutombo, Ewing or Hakeem.

Who did Shaq say was his most difficult defender in that era? 7-4 dutch center Rik Smits. That's because he was big enough to keep him out. Shaq lacked a plan B if plan A - get very low position - didn't work.

That's why people say Hakeem at prime was a better player than Shaq ever was and I agree, Kareem too and probably Wilt.

Mainly Shaq was a lazy sob and should have worked on his hook shot and free throws instead of bulking up.

[senelcoolidge]

Shaq had the potential to be as great as Wilt or Kareem, but despite being an underachiever he's still considered one of the best centers ever. When you look at his numbers they are disappointing.

[Da_Realist]

Here are Shaq's splits against HOF centers in his 1999-2000 season.

2 games vs. Patrick Ewing: 38.5 ppg, 11.5 rpg, 3.5 apg on 54.2 %FG/56.1 %TS
2 games vs. Ben Wallace: 33.0 ppg, 13.0 rpg, 6.0 apg on 68.4 %FG/68.0 %TS
3 games vs. David Robinson: 28.3 ppg, 8.3 rpg, 2.3 apg on 63.6 %FG/63.1 %TS
2 games vs. Alonzo Mourning: 22.5 ppg, 11.5 rpg, 5.0 apg on 43.6 %FG/48.0 %TS
4 games vs. Arvydas Sabonis: 20.5 ppg, 13.0 rpg, 3.5 apg on 50.0 %FG/49.7 %TS
3 games vs. Hakeem Olajuwon: 19.0 ppg, 13.0 rpg, 3.0 apg on 49.1 %FG/48.2 %TS
2 games vs. Dikembe Mutombo: 16.0 ppg, 12.0 rpg, 3.5 apg on 39.5 %FG/37.0 %TS

in 18 season games against HOF centers: 24.7 ppg, 11.8 rpg, 3.7 apg on 47.8 %FG/49.1 %TS

In 79 season games against the entire league: 29.7 ppg, 13.6 rpg, 3.8 apg on 57.4 FG%/57.8 TS%

2000 WCF 7 games against Arvydas Sabonis: 25.9 ppg, 12.4 rpg, 4.3 apg on 53.7 %FG/55.0 %TS




Mind you except Mourning and Mutombo none of those other guys are even in their primes. This honestly makes me reconsider his place on the all-time list a bit.

For one thing, I think everyone's numbers dip when you look at how they do against their best competition compared to the rest of the league.

For another, this is case where I would have to see the games instead of just trusting the numbers. There is no way Alonzo Mourning, a souped-up power forward, could do anything with a motivated Shaq.

Shaq's nature, which everyone would call lazy, demands that we look deeper into the numbers. How many of these games required Shaq at his best? Were his teammates feeding off the attention he drew? There are other factors...

Thirdly, Shaq did pretty well against Dikembe a year later in the Finals. A motivated Shaw took the Finals MVP. So that nullifies this 2 game sampling from the regular season a year before. And a younger, more immature Shaq held his own against Hakeem in his prime in the 95 Finals.

Lastly, these are some pretty good numbers. I don't see how he was "awful".

[aj1987]

Here are Shaq's splits against HOF centers in his 1999-2000 season.

2 games vs. Patrick Ewing: 38.5 ppg, 11.5 rpg, 3.5 apg on 54.2 %FG/56.1 %TS
2 games vs. Ben Wallace: 33.0 ppg, 13.0 rpg, 6.0 apg on 68.4 %FG/68.0 %TS
3 games vs. David Robinson: 28.3 ppg, 8.3 rpg, 2.3 apg on 63.6 %FG/63.1 %TS
2 games vs. Alonzo Mourning: 22.5 ppg, 11.5 rpg, 5.0 apg on 43.6 %FG/48.0 %TS
4 games vs. Arvydas Sabonis: 20.5 ppg, 13.0 rpg, 3.5 apg on 50.0 %FG/49.7 %TS
3 games vs. Hakeem Olajuwon: 19.0 ppg, 13.0 rpg, 3.0 apg on 49.1 %FG/48.2 %TS
2 games vs. Dikembe Mutombo: 16.0 ppg, 12.0 rpg, 3.5 apg on 39.5 %FG/37.0 %TS

in 18 season games against HOF centers: 24.7 ppg, 11.8 rpg, 3.7 apg on 47.8 %FG/49.1 %TS

In 79 season games against the entire league: 29.7 ppg, 13.6 rpg, 3.8 apg on 57.4 FG%/57.8 TS%

2000 WCF 7 games against Arvydas Sabonis: 25.9 ppg, 12.4 rpg, 4.3 apg on 53.7 %FG/55.0 %TS




Mind you except Mourning and Mutombo none of those other guys are even in their primes. This honestly makes me reconsider his place on the all-time list a bit.

Why the **** are you doing just that one season?

Post his numbers against Hakeem in the '95 Finals, against Ben in the '04 Finals, etc..

Dropped 28/12 against the Knicks in '94 (5 games).
Dropped 35/12 against the Knicks in '95 (5 games). Would've higher, if he didn't play poorly (13/7) in the ONLY game Ewing didn't play in.
Dropped 28/10 against the Knicks in '96 (4 games).
26/13 in the only game in '97.

30/13 against D-Rob in '95 and '96 (the seasons he made All-D First team).

I could keep going all day. Shaq did have bad games against good centers, but he routinely DESTROYED them.


****ing Chokerlain stans... Stick to watching grainy clips of your idol choking on Russell's D. Dude would be a nothing more than a role-player in the '90's. A much worse version of D-Rob. Just be glad that he played in an absolutely garbage ass era.

EDIT: Also, the idiots agreeing with OP... Kobeturds are literally the worst.

[swagga]

this thread
awful numbers

reality check son, everybody plays a bit worse against better competition. Lol awfal.

You tripping son.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

In a Game 7, 26/12/4 on 54% shooting is now considered 'awful' ...

2 games vs. Dikembe Mutombo: 16.0 ppg, 12.0 rpg, 3.5 apg on 39.5 %FG/37.0 %TS

Now post what he did vs Mutombo (DPOY) in the finals, when games REALLY mattered.

lol @ this 2 game sample, during the regular-season, changing your opinion of Shaq.

[90sgoat]

In a Game 7, 26/12/4 on 54% shooting is now considered 'awful' ...



Now post what he did vs Mutombo (DPOY) in the finals, when games REALLY mattered.

lol @ this 2 game sample, during the regular-season, changing your opinion of Shaq.

To be fair that wasn't peak Mutombo but old man Mutombo.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

To be fair that wasn't peak Mutombo but old man Mutombo.

Neither was 2000 though - and the difference is verz 2001 was a better defender.

[aj1987]

To be fair that wasn't peak Mutombo but old man Mutombo.

Dude won DPOY in 2001, was an All-Star, made the All-NBA second team, and All-Def first team.