Tom Brady is now the undisputed GOAT football player, unfortunately.

[Cleverness]

I have no problem with people calling Brady the GOAT. It's tough to argue against that objectively. But personally... gimme Peyton Manning over Brady with all else being equal.

[Vino24]

Manning is not even close to Brady anymore. Brady is too clutch. If there was a clutch gene he would have it. Manning folded like a cheap tent way too many times.

[dude77]

I have no problem with people calling Brady the GOAT. It's tough to argue against that objectively. But personally... gimme Peyton Manning over Brady with all else being equal.

I don't see manning wining that game yesterday

Manning is not even close to Brady anymore. Brady is too clutch. If there was a clutch gene he would have it. Manning folded like a cheap tent way too many times.

basically this

[Cleverness]

I don't see manning wining that game yesterday

When I saw the Colts win, it was because of Peyton. When I saw the Patriots win, I saw it as a team win. And maybe it's also because the beginning of their careers were so much different. Peyton was elite by his second season... I didn't think of Tom Brady as an elite QB until around 2007. Just my opinion!

[kennethgriffen]

I have no problem with people calling Brady the GOAT. It's tough to argue against that objectively. But personally... gimme Peyton Manning over Brady with all else being equal.

mannings a choker...he almost always underachieved in the playoffs

his 2nd superbowl ring was gift wrapped for him

[aj1987]

Stop believing everything you read on ESPN like a sheep. Those analysts get fired for pushing current players as GOAT so that the respective leagues gain more views.

An unbiased website with no ties to the NFL:
https://www.ranker.com/crowdranked-l...l-players-ever

17,000+ have Jerry Rice as the GOAT.

Good lord! This is why janitors should just stick to cleaning toilets. Leave the discussions up to us regular people.

[Kblaze8855]

I don't see manning wining that game yesterday

Im sure you didnt see him coming back from 3 TDs down to knock the Patriots out in 06 either. Brady last beat Manning in a game that mattered 15 years ago. Since then Manning knocked him out to go to the superbowl 3 times....and in 2 of them Brady threw game ending interceptions late.

And not one time has anyone seen me say Brady is the reason his teams lost.

When Peyton had the defense and a kicker...its a lot easier to win. Its all pretty clear...

But once a narrative gets going it stays in the minds of people who dont look that closely.

The Chiefs had the second worst defense to EVER make the playoffs. Not recently. Not since the merger. To make it...in all of history. I suspect Manning could perform. He did throw for 400 yards with no turnovers to knock the Pats out....the second time they won in the title game. The third time in a row Manning team knocked Bradys out to go to the superbowl Peyton was washed up and his defense and special teams were the reason. I have no problem saying so.

But nobody wants to consider such things when the Pats knocked out the colts by having the #1 defense in the league and forcing 5 turnovers, with 5 sacks, while Vinateri went 5 of 5 on field goals that game with the offense only scoring once. All thats remembered?

Memes of Brady being Mannings dad.

Its just weird the things we will flat out forget because of narrative.

Imagine the shit Peyton Manning would hear if his team beat the Steelers to make the superbowl without him. We would still be hearing about it. I have a patriot fan little cousin who legit...had no idea it happened till I told him. He didnt even know Drew Bledsoe played for the Pats after that injury that gave Tom a shot.

In the end all that survives is the useful part of the narrative. The way people talk you wouldnt even know Brady is 2-3 vs Manning in the playoffs. Not that it really matters individually.

[kennethgriffen]

Im sure you didnt see him coming back from 3 TDs down to knock the Patriots out in 06 either. Brady last beat Manning in a game that mattered 15 years ago. Since then Manning knocked him out to go to the superbowl 3 times....and in 2 of them Brady threw game ending interceptions late.

And not one time has anyone seen me say Brady is the reason his teams lost.

When Peyton had the defense and a kicker...its a lot easier to win. Its all pretty clear...

But once a narrative gets going it stays in the minds of people who dont look that closely.

The Chiefs had the second worst defense to EVER make the playoffs. Not recently. Not since the merger. To make it...in all of history. I suspect Manning could perform. He did throw for 400 yards with no turnovers to knock the Pats out....the second time they won in the title game. The third time in a row Manning team knocked Bradys out to go to the superbowl Peyton was washed up and his defense and special teams were the reason. I have no problem saying so.

But nobody wants to consider such things when the Pats knocked out the colts by having the #1 defense in the league and forcing 5 turnovers, with 5 sacks, while Vinateri went 5 of 5 on field goals that game with the offense only scoring once. All thats remembered?

Memes of Brady being Mannings dad.

Its just weird the things we will flat out forget because of narrative.

Imagine the shit Peyton Manning would hear if his team beat the Steelers to make the superbowl without him. We would still be hearing about it. I have a patriot fan little cousin who legit...had no idea it happened till I told him. He didnt even know Drew Bledsoe played for the Pats after that injury that gave Tom a shot.

In the end all that survives is the useful part of the narrative. The way people talk you wouldnt even know Brady is 2-3 vs Manning in the playoffs. Not that it really matters individually.

you know QBs dont guard each other right?


we judge them by what they do.. not by what QB they do it to


because a QB cant do anything to another QB. its physically impossible

[Kblaze8855]

Thats the entire point....

We make these things head to head matchups between people who are never on the field together.

You play the other teams defense.

Its not Bradys fault his team couldnt block Strahan/Osi when he played the Giants or Von Miller vs the Broncos. Its not his fault when his defense makes a bad read or someone has a drive killing false start. Its 50 on 50. The QB can lose the game for you easier due to how many chances he gets to personally turn it over but literally every player can **** up your game at any moment.

Kicking throws it off even more. The offense and defense sits down and literally prays for a guy who does 8 seconds of work a game to save the season.

If you have a Legatron all your thousands of hours of work may be saved. If you have Parkey hitting the uprights 6 times in the season it almost doesnt matter how good the rest of your team is. Eventually hes gonna have to come through or it was all for nothing.

When the colts came back from that disaster of a first half to beat the patriots in the title game when they won the first Super Bowl I was on here asking people who blamed Brady how is he supposed to stop Peyton Manning from scoring himself.

You get a 20 point lead unless you’re throwing pick six after pick six is on the d it to hold it.

We want a story so bad we throw out our common sense.

[kennethgriffen]

[QUOTE=Kblaze8855]Thats the entire point....

We make these things head to head matchups between people who are never on the field together.

You play the other teams defense.

Its not Bradys fault his team couldnt block Strahan/Osi when he played the Giants or Von Miller vs the Broncos. Its not his fault when his defense makes a bad read or someone has a drive killing false start. Its 50 on 50. The QB can lose the game for you easier due to how many chances he gets to personally turn it over but literally every player can **** up your game at any moment.

Kicking throws it off even more. The offense and defense sits down and literally prays for a guy who does 8 seconds of work a game to save the season.

If you have a Legatron all your thousands of hours of work may be saved. If you have Parkey hitting the uprights 6 times in the season it almost doesnt matter how good the rest of your team is. Eventually hes gonna have to come through or it was all for nothing.

When the colts came back from that disaster of a first half to beat the patriots in the title game when they won the first Super Bowl I was on here asking people who blamed Brady how is he supposed to stop Peyton Manning from scoring himself.

You get a 20 point lead unless you

[Kblaze8855]

Even if you could judge a player by his teams success you couldnt compare a QB to other position that way. You say you are comparing all players all time this way...

Tell me...

How do you judge a cornerback vs a QB by success and records?

A corner cant win you a game on his own(not that a QB can either) and they have worse numbers when they play better.

How do you account for people not throwing at Deion at all? He gets no interceptions...or tackles. You can use his opponents catches if you can track it but vs a run dominant team....might they just not try him at all?

What clutch plays and records are you using to judge Joe Thomas? He supposed to have success on the browns just off being a great tackle his entire career?

You cant really cross positions in these things. You can always make a fun little list but you look at it and its just....

Ok. NFL did a list like 10 years ago. Otto Graham...5 time MVP 7 time champion. Number 16. Anthony Munoz who never won anything is #12. But ok...hes more modern...maybe they went with...hes flat out better at the game. But then Barry Sanders is #17. Don Hudson was the first great wideout...won 3 rings. Ok. But #9 all time? With Irvin #92 with the same 3 rings? Bart Starr has 7 rings and Terry Bradshaw 4. They are numbers 50 and 51.

It all gets so arbitrary because...how do you even argue Bronko Nagurski a 1930s fullback with 3 rings vs Ed Reed? So many people have stacks of rings and mvps and records...then some positions hurt their numbers with dominance(Corners) or cant stack numbers due to era(QBs and Wrs in the old days).

You just end up picking who you want then using whatever logic you must to make it make sense then throwing it all out in the next matchup. And I cant even blame you...because its an impossible task. So to be clear....I cant even say youre wrong to put Brady anywhere on an all time players list because I have no way to say he isnt that wouldnt invalidate some other ranking id have to make. It ends up personal opinion. Too many people have too many accolades and too many accolades either cant accurately judge the player as an individual....or dont exist for that position.

You cant get away from hypocrisy making such a list.

[stalkerforlife]

A QB will always have to be the GOAT because they are the most important player on the field.

That's just a simple fact.

And Brady is the GOAT QB.

Another simple fact.

There's no need to be cute here to push an agenda.

[Prometheus]

A QB will always have to be the GOAT because they are the most important player on the field.

That's just a simple fact.

And Brady is the GOAT QB.

Another simple fact.

There's no need to be cute here to push an agenda.

yep

[kennethgriffen]

Even if you could judge a player by his teams success you couldnt compare a QB to other position that way. You say you are comparing all players all time this way...

Tell me...

How do you judge a cornerback vs a QB by success and records?

A corner cant win you a game on his own(not that a QB can either) and they have worse numbers when they play better.

How do you account for people not throwing at Deion at all? He gets no interceptions...or tackles. You can use his opponents catches if you can track it but vs a run dominant team....might they just not try him at all?

What clutch plays and records are you using to judge Joe Thomas? He supposed to have success on the browns just off being a great tackle his entire career?

You cant really cross positions in these things. You can always make a fun little list but you look at it and its just....

Ok. NFL did a list like 10 years ago. Otto Graham...5 time MVP 7 time champion. Number 16. Anthony Munoz who never won anything is #12. But ok...hes more modern...maybe they went with...hes flat out better at the game. But then Barry Sanders is #17. Don Hudson was the first great wideout...won 3 rings. Ok. But #9 all time? With Irvin #92 with the same 3 rings? Bart Starr has 7 rings and Terry Bradshaw 4. They are numbers 50 and 51.

It all gets so arbitrary because...how do you even argue Bronko Nagurski a 1930s fullback with 3 rings vs Ed Reed? So many people have stacks of rings and mvps and records...then some positions hurt their numbers with dominance(Corners) or cant stack numbers due to era(QBs and Wrs in the old days).

You just end up picking who you want then using whatever logic you must to make it make sense then throwing it all out in the next matchup. And I cant even blame you...because its an impossible task. So to be clear....I cant even say youre wrong to put Brady anywhere on an all time players list because I have no way to say he isnt that wouldnt invalidate some other ranking id have to make. It ends up personal opinion. Too many people have too many accolades and too many accolades either cant accurately judge the player as an individual....or dont exist for that position.

You cant get away from hypocrisy making such a list.

why do you always write these books. i only address the first point you make. just sayin


and you dont compare qbs to corner backs because QBs are historically and inarguably more valuable/essential on average. QBs almost always win mvp so theyre undoubtedly better and more deserving of goat consideration. the best football player ever is tom brady beyond a shadow of a doubt


it was arguable like 7/8 years ago but now its just a fact and anyone who still tries arguing it is just a semantics troll or racist


i dunno which one you are yet lol

[Kblaze8855]

I dont think you would find anyone in football to tell you the best football players are always the quarterbacks. Theres a reason you know who Jim Brown is 50 years later and not his qb...who was a star by the way. Youre never gonna see an all time list with the top 50 QBs then Jerry Rice after all of that.

Youre always gonna see Rice, brown, LT, and guys on that level at or near the top of these lists with dozens of quarterbacks behind them. That is a simple fact. What you said is an opinion. A fact...is that you will never in your life see a top all time players list with nothing but quarterbacks at the top. And you shouldnt.

Barry Sanders vs Jim Kelly isnt just a dumb question because one is a QB and automatically better. It may be a dumb question...but that isnt why.