When did Lebron elevate a team of unestablished/young players to a championship?

[3ball]

You have the audacity to list Pierce, Curry & Durant when complaining about colluded titles

Again, non-ball-dominators have nearly all the rings, and most didn't need to collude

Otoh, ball-dominators have almost no non-colluded rings, and only 3 colluded

It's funny because you guys complain about comp when lebron was "compensated" for that by getting extra Finals chances via a weak conference, and his own super-teams .. it was on him to have the best teams of his era, yet 3/9.. so don't complain

[SouBeachTalents]

New top 15 based on the OP's logic and the notion that dominant wing > dominant big in modern era:


1. MJ
2. Bird
3. Kobe
4. Magic
5. Wilt
6. Kareem
7. Shaq
8. Russell
9. Duncan
10. Kawhi
11. Durant
12. Hakeem
13. Pettit
14. Moses
15. Dirk

How many times you gonna change your all time ranking list this year

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/sho...9&postcount=32

[3ball]

Boi, taking a team to the finals >>>>>>>>>a 1st round exit. I can't even begin to stress > enough. Mj elevated his team back to the lottery while lebron lifted his team to the point they couldn't get lotto picks. This is easy stuff, no need to twist your brain into a pretzel over.

MJ's 1st round losses happened in his first few seasons, when nearly all lottery picks like Lebron, Durant, and Kyrie REMAIN lottery by missing the playoffs

Also, you've said previously that the 80's Celtics = Spurs or Warriors

So lebron's Finals sweeps and blowouts prove that if he faced that caliber in the first round i.e. 80's Celtics, he would've lost in the first round instead of the Finals; he simply didn't have to face that caliber until the Finals, while MJ faced it in the 1st Round

[RRR3]

3ball,


1. Why did you lie about retiring?

2. Why are you constantly changing your GOAT list? And not even minor changes either.

[3ball]

3ball,


1. Why did you lie about retiring?

2. Why are you constantly changing your GOAT list? And not even minor changes either.

It was a quick retirement and I bumped Wilt down below the goat perimeter players, but still goat of the bigs

It's always a fluid list as ongoing evolution tells us more about our past

[Hey Yo]

They were already stars, so lebron didn't have to develop their talent, or the team's teamwork to achieve favorite status (they were preseason favorites to win it all, and right before playoffs)

LOL @ not knowing the reg. season and postseason aren't comparable.

[sdot_thadon]

MJ's 1st round losses happened in his first few seasons, when nearly all lottery picks like Lebron, Durant, and Kyrie REMAIN lottery by missing the playoffs

Also, you've said previously that the 80's Celtics = Spurs or Warriors

So lebron's Finals sweeps and blowouts prove that if he faced that caliber in the first round i.e. 80's Celtics, he would've lost in the first round instead of the Finals; he simply didn't have to face that caliber until the Finals, while MJ faced it in the 1st Round

You never seem to think any of these topics through bro. Mj led the bulls to lotto picks Lebron didn't as a matter of fact here's the picks each had after being drafted:

Mj:
11th pick in 85
9th pick in 86
8th AND 10th pick in 87
11th pick in 88
6th pick in 89

LBJ: 10th pick in 04 and never another pick in approaching top 10.

So basically your argument is mortally wounded on 2 fronts here. Mj not only couldn't elevate his teams higher than Lebron did in 07 but he also had much better draft talent added to his team.

Lastly just for shits and giggles if lebron were to have Mjs draft position in place of his own he'd have these guys available for the cavs to draft:

1 of :biedrens, telfair, humphires, al jefferson, jr smith, josh smith....or perhaps they take luke Jackson like they did that year with the 10th pick
1 of: bynum, granger
2 of: rudy gay and jj Reddick, sefolosha
1 of: thad young, nick young, belinelli
1 of: gallinari, eric gordon

[superduper]

This might honestly be the best thread in ISH history

[3ball]

You never seem to think any of these topics through bro. Mj led the bulls to lotto picks Lebron didn't as a matter of fact here's the picks each had after being drafted:

Mj:
11th pick in 85
9th pick in 86
8th AND 10th pick in 87
11th pick in 88
6th pick in 89

LBJ: 10th pick in 04 and never another pick in approaching top 10.

So basically your argument is mortally wounded on 2 fronts here. Mj not only couldn't elevate his teams higher than Lebron did in 07 but he also had much better draft talent added to his team.

Lebron beat his conference earlier because it was weak, but he couldn't beat the league earlier because he's inferior to MJ - the league is the proper barometer and it accounts for a weak conference

MJ dominated the league like lebron dominates the East because his skill allowed the best brand of ball movement basketball that yields the best teams.. So it didn't matter who MJ faced in the Finals - his Finals teams were juggernauts that would never be 3/9 regardless of opponent

Otoh, guys like Lebron/Nash/CP3 can't play the ball movement brand because they lack an adequate skillset to score or assist quickly in the midst of the ball moving... So they must dominate the ball to produce, which puts a lower ceiling on their teams.. This is why I rank players like Nash, CP3, and Lebron behind guys like MJ, Bird, and Kobe (the top 3 perimeter players of all time)

[egokiller]

When did anyone else elevate a cast like the 07 Cavs to the finals?




oh the 2018 cavs......

Title of the thread says "championship" and you start talking about "showing up".

[sdot_thadon]

Title of the thread says "championship" and you start talking about "showing up".

i answered a stupid question with an equally stupid one tbfh. I'd have answered why'd you abandon your old account if you were the one asking. foh.

[sdot_thadon]

Lebron beat his conference earlier because it was weak, but he couldn't beat the league earlier because he's inferior to MJ - the league is the proper barometer and it accounts for a weak conference

MJ dominated the league like lebron dominates the East because his skill allowed the best brand of ball movement basketball that yields the best teams.. So it didn't matter who MJ faced in the Finals - his Finals teams were juggernauts that would never be 3/9 regardless of opponent

Otoh, guys like Lebron/Nash/CP3 can't play the ball movement brand because they lack an adequate skillset to score or assist quickly in the midst of the ball moving... So they must dominate the ball to produce, which puts a lower ceiling on their teams.. This is why I rank players like Nash, CP3, and Lebron behind guys like MJ, Bird, and Kobe (the top 3 perimeter players of all time)

You asked about elevation of a young team, well smart fella Mj was adding top 10 picks for damn near 5 years. Lebron just one. Let that sink in.

[And1AllDay]

When did anyone else elevate a cast like the 07 Cavs to the finals?




oh the 2018 cavs......

welp

issa wrap

[And1AllDay]

Title of the thread says "championship" and you start talking about "showing up".

str8 alltin

dispickable garbage human

[3ball]

When did anyone else elevate a cast like the 07 Cavs to the finals?

oh the 2018 cavs......

Lebron took 4 years to get that team to the Finals in 07'

And he didn't win the Finals - so he never elevated unestablished players to a championship, like the OP says

Whereas MJ elevated a group of raw, single-digit rookies to a three-peat.. two three-peats

So a pretty big difference