Have any of you watch Larry Bird play? Not that impressive...

[ronniec]

The other day I watched a full playoff game between Celtics and Lakers.

Certainly Bird was a great shooter and very fast passer. And like any other great player, he'd have his moments of greatness.

but

He'd have long stretches where he didn't even touch the ball. Like straight up they don't even include him for many possessions. Like he's Caldwell Pope or something. Wth is up with that.

Probably you don't know there was occasion that Bird had the chance to get a triple double but opted to sit down and let his teammates play.

He had a huge ego but never self centered.

[stalkerforlife]

Watched OP post.

Wasn't impressed.

[Manny98]

I was going to say something but i don't want to rile up the oldhead Bird stans here so forget it

[jayfan]

you just watched too much Lebron ball

he's not ball dominant like Magic or Isiah Thomas or MJ for that matter (in the 80s)

Isiah wasn't ball dominant. Just saying.



.

[90sgoat]

I'll let everyone in on a secret.

Even the 72 win Bulls frequently started the game running plays for Luc Longley or Toni Kukoc. MJ often didn't take more than a shot or two in the first 5 minutes.

It's almost as if getting everyone involved for real is good for team morale.

[superduper]

I'll let everyone in on a secret.

Even the 72 win Bulls frequently started the game running plays for Luc Longley or Toni Kukoc. MJ often didn't take more than a shot or two in the first 5 minutes.

It's almost as if getting everyone involved for real is good for team morale.

Nope sorry one guy padding his individual stats in a 5v5 team game is more important than anything. Empty stats in Ls are all we live for.

$tats

[EllEffEll]

Saw him countless times on TV, and saw him play in person once. The only things he didn't do that night was sell popcorn and clean the latrines.

Just naming the team he played for tinges the air with fecal matter for me, but I would be liar if I didn't say he was one of the greatest all-around players EVER. I don't think we'll ever see anyone else like him and for me, that's not a good thing.

Everybody's criteria for greatness is unique.

[tpols]

what a shallow take...

spoken like somebody who only watches the ball and not the other 99% of action.

[Marchesk]

Harden and Lebron-ball are ruining the game for the younger generation. They don't even know what good basketball looks like anymore.

[LAL]

Yes, and then consider his peak MVP numbers were something like 28/10/7. Volume stats achieved through not dominating the ball is a foreign concept to fans coming up on modern perimeter players.

underrated post

[Mr.GOAT2408]

Not as high on Bird as others are but it's not exactly a bad thing to not always have the ball in your hand

When you think about it, that's actually..... kind of a good thing

Only one ball, Bird was likely excellent at maximizing touches given how good his teams were. The dilemma: was his team good because they were stacked, were they good because Bird allowed them to maximize their ability, or a combo of both

The opposite of Bronball

[3ball]

The other day I watched a full playoff game between Celtics and Lakers.

Certainly Bird was a great shooter and very fast passer. And like any other great player, he'd have his moments of greatness.

but

He'd have long stretches where he didn't even touch the ball. Like straight up they don't even include him for many possessions. Like he's Caldwell Pope or something. Wth is up with that.

If the end result is is 30 ppg for Bird or Lebron, why not get those points while teammates have maximum time to produce so the TEAM maximizes production, rather than get those points by reducing teammates' hold-time so the team produces below capacity???

Bird's method won more and resulted in a better team with little if any statistical drop-off compared to lebron, at least in bird's prime.

Letting teammates run the show and only stepping in when needed is the optimal way for any star to get their 30 points... ... Teammates need maximum time to move the ball, make mistakes, and get in a rhythm... The star can get his anytime, so they only step in when needed to boost momentum or get through a lull..

Btw, you'd feel the same way watching MJ in 85', 87', 88', and 91-98, when he played largely off-ball and went many possessions without touching the rock... MJ's naturally off-ball style is what allowed Phil to think the triangle would work with the bulls.. otoh, no coach has been able to design a ball movement system around lebron, because his inferior skillset dominates the ball

[Thorpesaurous]

There was far more of this type of play pre expansion in 91-92 or whatever year that was the Hornets, Heat, etc showed up (I think they came in two waves).

I actually think this is one of the things that has affected our international problems as time went on. Sure the international scene improved leaps and bounds, but we went through a stretch where to me, it felt like a major weakness of our player development was not knowing how to play with other people. I believe that's a skill. In fact I think it's one of the most underrated aspects about Bird, of the truly great great elite level guys, I think he's the easiest one to pair with a second one. (That's a list I define as guys who've won multiple titles and multiple MVPs, so Russell, Wilt, Kareem, Magic, Bird, Jordan, Duncan, Lebron, Curry. It's a list that I know is has some flaws. It includes guys that like less then other guys, but to me at some point guys need to be judged by what they've done, and it's a weirdly specific and short list, and to me being in the next tier isn't some great slight).

[90sgoat]

There was far more of this type of play pre expansion in 91-92 or whatever year that was the Hornets, Heat, etc showed up (I think they came in two waves).

I actually think this is one of the things that has affected our international problems as time went on. Sure the international scene improved leaps and bounds, but we went through a stretch where to me, it felt like a major weakness of our player development was not knowing how to play with other people.

Good point.

See the last US team with Lowry, Cousins, PG etc. They had simply no idea of what to run except high PnR.

[bullettooth]

Doesn't it suck to think a guy that's lost 6 times in the finals is the GOAT?