Prime Kobe vs. Prime Jordan

[OldSchoolBBall]

I want to put all this nonsensical "Kobe = Jordan" or "Kobe > Jordan" stuff to rest. Here's a taste of what will be coming; I will be adding to this topic as I have time to. To start with, I'll use Shaq's 3 year peak and Duncan's 3 year peak as an example. Most Laker/Kobe fans will agree that prime Shaq was significantly more dominant than prime Duncan, yet these same people don't realize (or don't want to admit) that Jordan's prime was actually even further beyond Kobe's prime than Shaq's was above Duncan's. Allow me to illustrate:


Shaq's 3 year best PER: 30.4 (+3.4 PER above Duncan)

Duncan's 3 year best PER: 27.0


Shaq's 3 year best EFF: 31.1 (+1.8 EFF above Duncan)

Duncan's 3 year best EFF: 29.3


Shaq's 3 year best Win Shares: 15.7 (equal to Duncan's)

Duncan's 3 year best Win Shares: 15.7


Shaq's 3 year best ORtg: 115.0 (+4.0 above Duncan's)

Duncan's 3 year best ORtg: 111.0


Now for Jordan and Kobe:


Jordan's 3 year best PER: 31.3 (+5.5 PER above Kobe)

Kobe's 3 year best PER: 25.8


Jordan's 3 year best EFF: 35.6 (+10.7 EFF above Kobe)

Kobe's 3 year best EFF: 24.9


Jordan's 3 year best Win Shares: 19.4 (+5.1 above Kobe)

Kobe's 3 year best Win Shares: 14.3


Jordan's 3 year best ORtg: 123.0 (+8.3 above Kobe)

Kobe's 3 year best ORtg: 114.7



As you can see, Jordan's edge over Kobe in each category (and many others I haven't posted) is substantially larger than (sometimes over twice as large as) prime Shaq's advantage over prime Duncan. Furthermore, Duncan's defensive edge over Shaq makes their comparison closer than the numbers imply, whereas Jordan was a much more impactful defender than Kobe (he won DPOY, finished second in DPOY voting two other times, and finished top 5 for a nine year stretch), so his edge only increases above what is shown by the numbers.

Yet despite all this and more, you have clowns trying to posit equivalency between the two players. Why? Because they're both 6'6" and Kobe copied a ton of MJ's moves? Big deal. There's no comparison between them in terms of impact on the court. Period. There's more coming.

[Thunderstruck]

I want to put all this nonsensical "Kobe = Jordan" or "Kobe > Jordan" stuff to rest. Here's a taste of what will be coming; I will be adding to this topic as I have time to. To start with, I'll use Shaq's 3 year peak and Duncan's 3 year peak as an example. Most Laker/Kobe fans will agree that prime Shaq was significantly more dominant than prime Duncan, yet these same people don't realize (or don't want to admit) that Jordan's prime was actually even further beyond Kobe's prime than Shaq's was above Duncan's. Allow me to illustrate:


Shaq's 3 year best PER: 30.4 (+3.4 PER above Duncan)

Duncan's 3 year best PER: 27.0


Shaq's 3 year best EFF: 31.1 (+1.8 EFF above Duncan)

Duncan's 3 year best EFF: 29.3


Shaq's 3 year best Win Shares: 15.7 (equal to Duncan's)

Duncan's 3 year best Win Shares: 15.7


Shaq's 3 year best ORtg: 115.0 (+4.0 above Duncan's)

Duncan's 3 year best ORtg: 111.0


Now for Jordan and Kobe:


Jordan's 3 year best PER: 31.3 (+5.5 PER above Kobe)

Kobe's 3 year best PER: 25.8


Jordan's 3 year best EFF: 35.6 (+10.7 EFF above Kobe)

Kobe's 3 year best EFF: 24.9


Jordan's best 3 year Win Shares: 19.4 (+5.1 above Kobe)

Kobe's 3 year best Win Shares: 14.3


Jordan's best 3 year ORtg: 123.0 (+8.3 above Kobe)

Kobe's 3 year best ORtg: 114.7



As you can see, Jordan's edge over Kobe in each category (and many others I haven't posted) is substantially larger than (sometimes over twice as large as) prime Shaq's advantage over prime Duncan. Furthermore, Duncan's defensive edge over Shaq makes their comparison closer than the numbers imply, whereas Jordan was a much more impactful defender than Kobe (he won DPOY, finished second in DPOY voting two other times, and finished top 5 for a none year stretch), so his edge only increases above what is shown by the numbers.

Yet despite all this and more, you have clowns trying to posit equivalency between the two players. Why? Because they're both 6'6" and Kobe copied a ton of MJ's moves? Big deal. There's no comparison between them in terms of impact on the court. Period. There's more coming.

but but but, it was a weak era...

[OldSchoolBBall]

but but but, it was a weak era...

Unfortunately for some, numbers like PER, ORtg, and Win Shares are league-independent, since you're being compared to your own peers. Guys like CP3 and Lebron prove that you can have a high ORtg/PER/Win Shares as a superstar in today's league, and certainly no one (who's sane) would make the case that they're as good as Jordan was. Just because Kobe doesn't have a stellar ORtg (or PER, or EFF or Win Shares, or Player Wins, or Birdies, or AV rating etc.) doesn't mean that it's not possible, only that Kobe hasn't done so. This thought process illustrates why he's overrated by some.

My aim in creating this thread is not to bash Kobe. He's a fantastic player -- I have him between 16-21 all-time right now, and he'll likely finish his career in the top 9-14 range. He's been a top 2-3 player for the past 4 seasons and a top 5-6 player since 2001. But he isn't Jordan, nor is he particularly close. It's time for some people to realize that.

[Maniak]

I agree.

Dominoes pizza is the best!

[The Magic Man]

What the hell makes you think you have the power and strength to put a rest to something that has brewed and simmered so long? There are like 50 threads a day about this and you think yours will be the end all? I laugh at you sir. Ha ha ha he ho ha ho.

[bruceblitz]

I want to put all this nonsensical "Kobe = Jordan" or "Kobe > Jordan" stuff to rest. Here's a taste of what will be coming; I will be adding to this topic as I have time to. To start with, I'll use Shaq's 3 year peak and Duncan's 3 year peak as an example. Most Laker/Kobe fans will agree that prime Shaq was significantly more dominant than prime Duncan, yet these same people don't realize (or don't want to admit) that Jordan's prime was actually even further beyond Kobe's prime than Shaq's was above Duncan's. Allow me to illustrate:


Shaq's 3 year best PER: 30.4 (+3.4 PER above Duncan)

Duncan's 3 year best PER: 27.0


Shaq's 3 year best EFF: 31.1 (+1.8 EFF above Duncan)

Duncan's 3 year best EFF: 29.3


Shaq's 3 year best Win Shares: 15.7 (equal to Duncan's)

Duncan's 3 year best Win Shares: 15.7


Shaq's 3 year best ORtg: 115.0 (+4.0 above Duncan's)

Duncan's 3 year best ORtg: 111.0


Now for Jordan and Kobe:


Jordan's 3 year best PER: 31.3 (+5.5 PER above Kobe)

Kobe's 3 year best PER: 25.8


Jordan's 3 year best EFF: 35.6 (+10.7 EFF above Kobe)

Kobe's 3 year best EFF: 24.9


Jordan's 3 year best Win Shares: 19.4 (+5.1 above Kobe)

Kobe's 3 year best Win Shares: 14.3


Jordan's 3 year best ORtg: 123.0 (+8.3 above Kobe)

Kobe's 3 year best ORtg: 114.7



As you can see, Jordan's edge over Kobe in each category (and many others I haven't posted) is substantially larger than (sometimes over twice as large as) prime Shaq's advantage over prime Duncan. Furthermore, Duncan's defensive edge over Shaq makes their comparison closer than the numbers imply, whereas Jordan was a much more impactful defender than Kobe (he won DPOY, finished second in DPOY voting two other times, and finished top 5 for a none year stretch), so his edge only increases above what is shown by the numbers.

Yet despite all this and more, you have clowns trying to posit equivalency between the two players. Why? Because they're both 6'6" and Kobe copied a ton of MJ's moves? Big deal. There's no comparison between them in terms of impact on the court. Period. There's more coming.

Jordan was better than Kobe, prime vs prime, it's not even close really. I'm not even gonna post my opinion past that. I don't even see the need to prove my opinion past that.

Jordan is the greatest of all time.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xCRre3nX88g

[OldSchoolBBall]

What the hell makes you think you have the power and strength to put a rest to something that has brewed and simmered so long? There are like 50 threads a day about this and you think yours will be the end all? I laugh at you sir. Ha ha ha he ho ha ho.

My point is that the "brewing" and "simmering" is perpetuated by zealous Laker/Kobe fans and not by rational people. You, sporting a Laker avatar and with a history of questionable posts regarding Jordan, are undoubtedly a member of the former group. If you have anything substantive to add in regard to the original post, feel free. Until then, I ha ha ha and ho ho ho at you too. Good day, sir.

[Al Thornton]

I agree.

Dominoes pizza is the best!

HEY! **** off.



/thread

[Maniak]

Never heard of it. Where is it located? Is it a chain? Whats their specialty pizza?

[KenneBell]

I agree.

Dominoes pizza is the best!

But what about Pizza Hut?

[Maniak]

But what about Pizza Hut?

Meh, never been much of a pizza hut fan myself...

[bruceblitz]

I give the thread 5*'s because the poster brought his homework to the table, he's obviously sick of the few Kobe fans left who overrate him, but, that being said, I'm sick of it guys. I mean who isn't? Anyone who thinks Kobe is better than MJ was is a dumb ass fan boy.

[zay_24]

Kobe is a more versatile player, better defender,passer LEADER.

[OldSchoolBBall]

Stop mucking up my topic, people. Thanks.

[The Magic Man]

My point is that the "brewing" and "simmering" is perpetuated by zealous Laker/Kobe fans and not by rational people. You, sporting a Laker avatar and with a history of questionable posts regarding Jordan, are undoubtedly a member of the former group. If you have anything substantive to add in regard to the original post, feel free. Until then, I ha ha ha and ho ho ho at you too. Good day, sir.

My good man, you blatantly unmask your prejudice against any person of the Laker ilth. When have I ever said anything questionable about Mr. Jordan? Ahhhh, but I am a Laker fan so I must not like Michael Jordan. Do you not consider yourself a zealous MJ fan? Why must you create a scene just to discuss the greatness of MJ. MJ, a Hall of Fame player. NBA Champion. The Greatest. We all know this. You aren't coming to the table with groundbreaking information. You are using the same dry arguments mixed with fairytale PER and EFF and OPP and NWA stats. You sir are a creeton. And if you don't apologise to me for your lack of repect and misplaced judgement, I will be forced to slap you with a glove and challenge you to a dual. I'm waiting.