why dont Wilt era fans like to brag about 6-5 Elgin Baylor averaging 19.8 rebounds

[secund2nun]

It shows how stats from back then are useless because the competition was trash. I mean really 50 ppg? wth. Wilt was a legit NBA player going up against mainly trash that would not have a chance in hell of making the NBA these days.

[LAZERUSS]

How many posters here have ever heard of Swen Nater? He was a 6-11 backup to Bill Walton at UCLA in the early 70's. In the 79-80 season, he led the league in rebounding at 15.0 rpg, and in only 35 mpg...in an NBA that averaged 45 rpg. In fact, he has one of the highest TRB% rates in NBA history.

[kennethgriffin]

If defenses are so much better today, how do explain the TODAY's eFG% of .499? BTW, the CURRENT NBA is shooting FT's at a .755 pace. In the 58-59 season, the NBA shot .756.

the best part of this quote is using free throw percentage as a defensive statistic. considering there is no defense on free throws

and the problem with using shooting percentages as a defensive stat is that everyone back in the day would brick anything beyond 15 feet. their 1 handed flat footed shots would routinely be around 40% even with nobody near them. while a player today hits 90% of their shots in practice with similar sh*t defense


the funniest thing about the 60's is that players shot such a shit percentage even without a 3 point line. only big men have relative percentages to other eras because they never were concerned with shooting three's for the most part

think if kobe never shot a 3 pointer in his life. his fg% would be around 50-55%

when lebron shoots a ton of 3's his fg% was 48%.. now that he only shoots wide open 3's a few times a game and goes mostly for layups. its up to near 60%


so no... fg% or shooting % of any kind are hardly a way to judge defense.

the way to judge defense is seeing the fact that back in the day guys could be player/coach and not draw up a single play or defensive scheme and win nba championships while doing it

[LAZERUSS]

the best part of this quote is using free throw percentage as a defensive statistic. considering there is no defense on free throws

and the problem with using shooting percentages as a defensive stat is that everyone back in the day would brick anything beyond 15 feet. their 1 handed flat footed shots would routinely be around 40% even with nobody near them. while a player today hits 90% of their shots in practice with similar sh*t defense


the funniest thing about the 60's is that players shot such a shit percentage even without a 3 point line. only big men have relative percentages to other eras because they never were concerned with shooting three's for the most part

think if kobe never shot a 3 pointer in his life. his fg% would be around 50-55%

when lebron shoots a ton of 3's his fg% was 48%.. now that he only shoots wide open 3's a few times a game and goes mostly for layups. its up to near 60%


so no... fg% or shooting % of any kind are hardly a way to judge defense.

the way to judge defense is seeing the fact that back in the day guys could be player/coach and not draw up a single play or defensive scheme and win nba championships while doing it

Kareem started playing in the NBA in 1969. He had four seasons in the 70's in which he shot .539, .529, .518, and even .513. He never shot anything below .564 in the 80's (until his last two years at ages 41 and 42.) His career high's came in the 80's.

In 28 career H2H matchups with Wilt, he shot .464 from the field. In 40 career H2H's with Nate Thurmond, he shot .440. This from a PEAK/PRIME KAJ. Kareem, at ages 38-42 shot .607 against Hakeem in his 23 career H2H's, and .567 against Ewing in his eight career H2H's (badly outshooting both of them.)

And both were among the top defensive centers of the 90's. I think that speaks volumes about your supposed "better" defense.

[kennethgriffin]

Kareem started playing in the NBA in 1969. He had four seasons in the 70's in which he shot .539, .529, .518, and even .513. He never shot anything below .564 in the 80's (until his last two years at ages 41 and 42.) His career high's came in the 80's.

In 28 career H2H matchups with Wilt, he shot .464 from the field. In 40 career H2H's with Nate Thurmond, he shot .440. This from a PEAK/PRIME KAJ. KAJ, at ages 38-42 shot .607 against Hakeem in his 23 career H2H's, and .567 against Ewing in his eight career H2H's (badly outshooting both of them.)

And both were among the top defensive centers of the 90's. I think that speaks volumes about your supposed "better" defense.

you have to be the biggest dope ive ever talked to on here.

when kareem was facing wilt. he was averaging 23-25 shots a game and was the main focul point of a centered offense around him. taking probably 60% of his shots from 6-8 feet out

when kareem was facing ewing. he was averaging 4-7 shots per game and was the last man on the floor to get a shot out of the starters. he scored all his points off tip ins or wide open dunks. maybe shot a hook once or twice a game for nostalgia



you ignoramus

[jzek]

Same reason why no one cares DaJuan Wagner scoring 100 points in HS... it's Bush League.

[Rose'sACL]

If defenses are so much better today, how do explain the TODAY's eFG% of .499? BTW, the CURRENT NBA is shooting FT's at a .755 pace. In the 58-59 season, the NBA shot .756.

current NBA players shoot better from 3s. no 3s back in those old eras. Current league shoots the most 3s in the history of the league. it is not only bad teams either. pretty much all the good teams shoot well from 3s. The fact that today's defense has to cope with that too just shows how good the defense is given that PPG is way lower as compared to any era pre 90s. It is not like the league lacks players that can run. the league has the fastest players of all time.

[SHAQisGOAT]

when kareem was facing ewing. he was averaging 4-7 shots per game and was the last man on the floor to get a shot out of the starters. he scored all his points off tip ins or wide open dunks. maybe shot a hook once or twice a game for nostalgia

Kareem was still taking 17 shots per game, at 38 years old, in 1986, 20 in the post-season to score 26 ppg.


http://www.basketball-reference.com/...1&p2=ewingpa01

Both averaged pretty much the same amount of shots, Kareem scored more than Ewing, in 3 less minutes, on MUCH greater efficiency. And Jabbar was 38(!) when Ewing came around. Also dropped 40 on him once.


http://www.basketball-reference.com/...1&p2=olajuha01

Scored 40 or more, 3 times against Hakeem, including a 46/11/4 on 21-30 game, in 37 minutes, at 38 years old. Averaged more ppg in the regular-season. Kareem was 37 when Dream joined the NBA.


You can't look at the raw numbers and say those types of things... Top10 leaders in rpg's were mostly (if not all of them) playing in the 60's - because of pace pretty much - and you just can't say that those are the top10 rebounders of all-time like that (similar thing for PER, for example). Wilt would be a beast in any era, and a top5 center of all-time all the same with an incredible peak, regardless of his numbers.
It's no surprise a geeky kid like you is "only" looking at the numbers and throwing them around like that. I don't know why I even bother though, I won't reply again, you're one of the worst posters here, surprises me why some people even take an ignorant child, such as yourself, seriously.

[SHAQisGOAT]

current NBA players shoot better from 3s. no 3s back in those old eras. Current league shoots the most 3s in the history of the league. it is not only bad teams either. pretty much all the good teams shoot well from 3s. The fact that today's defense has to cope with that too just shows how good the defense is given that PPG is way lower as compared to any era pre 90s. It is not like the league lacks players that can run. the league has the fastest players of all time.

So you're faulting them for not having a 3pt line (or for not coming up with it, like players in the 80's)? Child please Imagine them with a 3pt line scoring more points Goes both ways.

Look at this tool, looking at PPG and ignoring things like pace... Current Bobcats give up 3 less points than the 89 Pistons, guess they're a better (defensive) team? Put them in 1989 and you can be sure as hell they would be giving up more points than the Bad Boys, considerably.
Riddle me these things:
Why is average DRtg and eFG% pretty much the same now and in the 80's?
Why is DRtg worse than in the 70's? Worse defense, or better offense?
Why did FG% increased as pace decreased through the 70's into the 80's?

So, let me guess this straight, you're also saying that it was much harder to score in the paint (also looking at the rules)? Again, goes both ways.

Yea, fastest, strongest, biggest players, best offense and defense, so on (what else?)... I know all of that (bullshit) talk

Please just stop posting, son.. Always coming up with ignorant shit

[jongib369]

Question Kenneth, Rank these rebounders

Russell

Rodman

Wilt

Love

lucas

Dwight

Shaq

Griffin

[CavaliersFTW]

About the equivalent of a 6-5 Barkley leading the league at 14.6 rpg in an NBA with Hakeem, Moses, Parish, Ewing, Kareem, and other's...

this, OP is retarded

[jongib369]

this, OP is retarded

How does one know of Dennis Rodmans existance and yet doubt the ability of a smaller rebounder? How can someone who probably saw this guy play decent for the minutes he was given http://www.basketball-reference.com/...hayesch01.html

doubt the impact of someone like Unseld? I do have a little bias here but jesus

Literally no one I know on here compares stats from different eras directly....

[Sarcastic]

One of the great all time players put up great stats.

SHOCKING!!!

[Kblaze8855]

na theyed rather just assume that there was no inflated averages back then. and wilt was just that much better than everyone. and his 50ppg average would translate into todays nba

There are thousands of ISH posters. Show me two times anyone said that and wasn't clearly joking.

Show me. show me someone saying the numbers would translate directly.

[CavaliersFTW]

Elgin's estimated TRB% was calculated to fit nicely right in between Lebron James and Charles Barkley... Baylor was nothing short of an outstanding rebounding forward. IIRC his eTRB% turned out to be roughly the same as Larry Bird's. If he were playing today, he'd be the best rebounding small forward in the game, better than Lebron at it... considering that was basically what he was in his own time (the best rebounding SF), why should that be a surprise to anyone?