Magic vs Duncan

[played0ut]

About the rank thread everyone's all worked up about.

Magic
5x Rings
3x FMVP
3x MVP

Duncan
5x Rings
3x FMVP
2x MVP


Accolades are comparable. Lets see how they stack against each other.

Advantages for Magic:
-Controls the pace of the game better than almost anyone in NBA history
-More dynamic in offense
-Historical significance; him and Bird brought attention to the NBA and kept it afloat
-Arguably greatest PG of all time


Advantages for Duncan:
-Defensive anchor of his entire team
-Longevity
-DEFENSE.
8x All-Defensive First Team
6x All-Defensive Second Team
-Arguably greatest PF of all time


Major Accolades are almost a wash (Magic has one more MVP).

And I know Magic's impact on the game. But I'm picking Duncan over Magic. Basketball is a 2 way game and Duncan's defense blows Magic's out of the water. To me Magic's edge on offense isn't significant enough to overcome the MASSIVe defensive disparity between the two. Longevity's part of the reason too.

Picking between the two for #5 is apples and oranges to me. I'm ok if Magic beats out Duncan.

But rankings are also based on what voters 'value' more. I value defense heavily (Isaiah Pistons and Jordan Bulls). Is it so wrong to value defense and longevity over historical significance and some offense?

[bdreason]

I have Magic (#5) ranked ahead of Duncan (#7), but just barely.


If I'm starting a franchise, I would take Duncan though.

[Artillery]

Magic played on stacked Laker teams and his competition is all-time terrible. The 1980s Western Conferece was like a JV league. All the real competition was in the East back then.

Modern Eastern Conference=80s Western Conference. Both weak as hell.

[rmt]

I have Magic (#5) ranked ahead of Duncan (#7), but just barely.


If I'm starting a franchise, I would take Duncan though.

May I ask what criteria you're using for the ranking (even though you'd start a franchise with TD)?

[GimmeThat]

in 13 seasons, Magic played 190 playoff games 14.6 per season
in 17 seasons, Duncan played 234 playoff games 13.76 per season


I didn't look into how many rounds it really equated to.

since Magic also played in an era where the 1st round was a 5 games series.


I have a tough time saying Duncan is better than Magic right now

but lets say he plays 3-4 more seasons and his team never falls below the 50-55 wins per season.

I see his career winning percentage makes a pretty good case.


I've taken into Duncan's all defensive awards. but Magic, with the blessing of KAJ or not, really had some success in making noises in the playoff since he entered the league.

it's tough to overlook that.


Duncan's career isn't over yet, so, that's that on my 2 cents.

[LAZERUSS]

Magic played on stacked Laker teams and his competition is all-time terrible. The 1980s Western Conferece was like a JV league. All the real competition was in the East back then.

Modern Eastern Conference=80s Western Conference. Both weak as hell.

Oh really?

I'll save myself some time...

I get so tired of this MYTH that Magic's teams played in the weakest conference. How many people here know that in their 12 years in the league together, Magic's teams held a 13-11 edge in beating 50+ win teams over Bird's teams (yes, it includes the Finals)? Or that Magic's teams held a 3-1 advantage over Bird's in beating 60+ win teams (including his 90-91 season, and without Kareem)?

Or that Bird's teams were also beating patsies in their playoff runs. Bird's teams beat 41-41, 43-39, 43-39, 35-47, 36-46, 30-52, 40-42, 38-44, and 41-41 teams in his 12 years in the league with Magic. They also lost seven times with HCA, including a team with a 45-37 record, and another team that had a 51-31 record that swept Bird's team.

Bird's team LOST to the 59-23 Sixers in '80, 4-1, a team that Magic's Lakers would win in a romp, 4-2 (and won the clinching game, in Philly, without KAJ.) Bird's team lost to the 58-24 Sixers in '82, 4-3. The same team that Magic's Lakers beat handily, 4-2. How about the vaunted '83 Sixers? Bird's Celtics didn't even play them. They were getting swept in the previous round by a 51-31 Bucks team. And Bird's '88 Celtics were shellacked by the Pistons...a team that Magic's Lakers would beat 4-3.

Again, this perception that Magic's teams just cakewalked thru the playoffs, while Bird's teams were going thru grueling series against super-powers has been proven to be a MYTH.

[Hamtaro CP3KDKG]

Duncan played in a way better conference its not even close
he was the better twoway player

[Genaro]

Duncan is getting so overrated on ISH nowadays that it's not even funny anymore.

[Artillery]

1987 Lakers had the weakest run to a title in NBA history:

1st round: 37-45 Nuggets (.451)

2nd round: 42-40 Warriors (.512)

3rd round: 39-43 Sonics (.476)

Not a single 50 win team. Warriors barely had a .500 record. People give Lebron crap for playing in a weak conference but Magic never gets the same criticism. Dude played on the only stacked team in the West, played with a top 5 all-time great teammate, AND he routinely beat up on the dregs of the NBA. 80s Lakers never had a single decent rival in the West. The competition was that bad.

[LAZERUSS]

1987 Lakers had the weakest run to a title in NBA history:

1st round: 37-45 Nuggets (.451)

2nd round: 42-40 Warriors (.512)

3rd round: 39-43 Sonics (.476)

Not a single 50 win team. Warriors barely had a .500 record.

And then they routed the defending champion and 59-23 Celtics in the Finals.

[K Xerxes]

Can't really go wrong with either. Magic might just be the greatest offensive player ever, but I personally give the edge to Duncan for his all time great defense. Both have similar accomplishments so I don't know why Magic fans are going ballistic over some people ranking Duncan ahead.

[Artillery]

And then they routed the defending champion and 59-23 Celtics in the Finals.

Of course. Celtics were exhausted after going seven games against an emerging Pistons squad(52 win team). Meanwhile, the Lakers sleepwalked their way to the Finals playing a 39 win Sonics team in the WCF. They were well-rested(anybody would be when the majority of your playoff opponents were sub-500 teams).

[LAZERUSS]

Of course. Celtics were exhausted after going seven games against an emerging Pistons squad(52 win team). Meanwhile, the Lakers sleepwalked their way to the Finals playing a 39 win Sonics team in the WCF. They were well-rested(anybody would be when the majority of your playoff opponents were sub-500 teams).

Those Lakers would have blown thru Boston's post-season opposition as well.

[RichieW]

Tough to compare Magic and Duncan, they couldn't be more different as players.

The Kareem vs Duncan is a much more interesting debate. Kareem obviously still ahead of Duncan, but what if Duncan repeated next year? Their careers would begin to look very similar, albeit with Kareem winning significantly more MVPs and scoring more points.

I think Duncan getting six rings would be much more impressive than Kareem having six, considering the big gap in quality of team mates they had.

[IMObjective]

Those Lakers would have blown thru Boston's post-season opposition as well.