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Old 06-20-2007, 02:38 AM   #76
BlackMoses
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Default Re: Is Jordan really the GOAT?

Quote:
Originally Posted by EricForman
Even if that's true, the combination of the two is still enough to put Jordan over both.

Let's say Wilt is a 10 in stats and a 6 in winning. Russell is a 10 in winning but a 6 in stats... then you have Jordan, who's a solid 8.5 in both..... so yeah, he's not as good as either at what they do best, but the "weakness" isn't as weak as the other twos either.

There's no doubt that Jordan is not the biggest winner (clearly Russell) or the best statistical player (clearly Wilt even if you adjust his stats to fit the pace and such) of all time. That's not really disputable

What is disputable is how you define GOAT. For me there are two different definitions of GOAT: either the best team player (accomplished/winner) or best individual player (stats).

I'm looking for the best at one or the other, nothing else.

Since MJ fits neither criterium, he cannot be the GOAT.
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Old 06-20-2007, 07:28 AM   #77
West-Side
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Default Re: Is Jordan really the GOAT?

Jordan is probably the greatest basketball player to ever live, but if I could pick any 1 player to start a team from scratch...10 times out of 10, I'd choose Magic Johnson. Ultimate winner, ultimate team player.
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Old 06-20-2007, 07:32 AM   #78
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Default Re: Is Jordan really the GOAT?

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Since MJ fits neither criterium, he cannot be the GOAT.

You have the nerve to actually point out that Bill Russell had more rings while having A LOT more talent in those years, how many hall of famers did he play with? Further more, you actually think if Jordan wasn't playing for those Celtics they wouldn't achieve same greatness? I sure do.

As far as Mr. Overrated, I'm tired of hearing about how Wilt is so much above everyone else, he played in a era where centers were 6 inches shorter then him, give it a break...in todays game, his numbers would be no different then Shaquille in his prime. AT best.

Skill wise, on court performance, work ethic, clutch ability, competitiveness, defensive ability are the reasons Jordan is the single greatest basketball player to ever live. F*ck Russell and Wilt, both of them have always been overrated in my book...Kareem to me is better then both of them.
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Old 06-20-2007, 07:45 AM   #79
chains5000
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Default Re: Is Jordan really the GOAT?

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Originally Posted by West-Side
Jordan is probably the greatest basketball player to ever live, but if I could pick any 1 player to start a team from scratch...10 times out of 10, I'd choose Magic Johnson. Ultimate winner, ultimate team player.
Really?
I'd take Kareem over him, specially today. With the lack of good big men in the league he'd be a beast
In fact, I'd take some other players before him too...
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Old 06-20-2007, 08:03 AM   #80
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Default Re: Is Jordan really the GOAT?

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What horrible ...they are all white,small,so unathletic,bald and in slow motion...
those old bigs are overrated... they arent the best bigs...they are just the firsts bigs...

You do realize that for 20-second footage it's very easy to label somebody as useless. Take any of Jordan's game-winners against Utah (1997 or 1998), and Bryon Russell will seem like a scrub (and he wasn't really much more than just a role player anyway).

Quote:
As far as Mr. Overrated, I'm tired of hearing about how Wilt is so much above everyone else, he played in a era where centers were 6 inches shorter then him, give it a break...in todays game, his numbers would be no different then Shaquille in his prime. AT best.

I've posed the challenge multiple times and nobody was able to answer: Wilt-6 inches=6'7. Find me the 6'7 guys that Wilt supposedly regularly faced. Wilt was faster than Shaq, was close in terms of power, jumped more and he had a hell of a lot stamina. Wilt, at Shaq's age, didn't need the "for his 30 minutes per game, he's still prolific" crap. He was still playing 45 minutes per game, and this against Kareem, Thurmond, Hayes, Unseld, Lanier, etc. Put any of these players today and they are top-2 centers in the league. Kareem and Hayes would be No1, actually, as would Wilt at 35.

Quote:
Skill wise, on court performance, work ethic, clutch ability, competitiveness, defensive ability are the reasons Jordan is the single greatest basketball player to ever live. F*ck Russell and Wilt, both of them have always been overrated in my book...Kareem to me is better then both of them.

A Jordan fan believes that Wilt and Russell were overrated. Big surprise...
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