Replace K.Love with Prime Garnett, can Cavs beats Warriors?

[AirBonner]

^Dude has responded to this thread twice with his alts and both are giant meltdowns.

Exposed

[hold this L]

Of course. They would beat them easily as well. People seem to forget that Golden State lost tons of key pieces during the off-season.

What tons of key pieces other than Bogs did they lose? Everyone else was nice to have but none of them were that important. Bogut unfortunately is a huge miss.

It would be close, but it would depend how good the Cavs would be defensively vs the Warrior attack with Durant on it.

[swagga]

What tons of key pieces other than Bogs did they lose? Everyone else was nice to have but none of them were that important. Bogut unfortunately is a huge miss.

It would be close, but it would depend how good the Cavs would be defensively vs the Warrior attack with Durant on it.

they've lost a shitload of depth:
bogut, ezeli, speights ( >>>>>>>>>> zaza, javale, west) ... basically their entire frontcourt sans draymond.
barnes ( << kd but could defend stronger players ..)
barbosa and brandon rush (both were valuable contributors, 20 mpg of rotation time) and they were replaced with nothing.

so really, they've lost a lot.

[hold this L]

they've lost a shitload of depth:
bogut, ezeli, speights ( >>>>>>>>>> zaza, javale, west) ... basically their entire frontcourt sans draymond.
barnes ( << kd but could defend stronger players ..)
barbosa and brandon rush (both were valuable contributors, 20 mpg of rotation time) and they were replaced with nothing.

so really, they've lost a lot.

That's wrong. Barnes was just straight up garbage defensively. In the OKC tie in particular, he was getting abused and beaten to the point where other Warriors were helping him to double on who he was marking, and his defense sucked in the final as well. Durant is better at rebounding and can actually block shots, on top of adding some height and length to the starting 5.

Ezeli was straight up garbage last season as well. His finals in 15' was a huge downgrade to 16'. Javale is an awful player and Speighs was a good shooter off the bench, but Speighs was also the worst defender in the league. Definitely would have liked him in the team, but I'll take West over him or Ezeli no doubt. Bogs is just a massive loss because of his rebounding but more importantly he protects the rim better than almost any center. Zaza is mediocre at that, while being solid at rebounding. West and Durant are improvements defensively over what the Warriors had, Zaza is a big downgrade and any of Ezeli or Speighs >>> Javale of course. All the important pieces other than Bogs are still in the team though, all 7 of them. Saying that, defending at the rim and rebounding are two major concerns, esp the former.

[swagga]

That's wrong. Barnes was just straight up garbage defensively. In the OKC tie in particular, he was getting abused and beaten to the point where other Warriors were helping him to double on who he was marking, and his defense sucked in the final as well. Durant is better at rebounding and can actually block shots, on top of adding some height and length to the starting 5.

Ezeli was straight up garbage last season as well. His finals in 15' was a huge downgrade to 16'. Javale is an awful player and Speighs was a good shooter off the bench, but Speighs was also the worst defender in the league. Definitely would have liked him in the team, but I'll take West over him or Ezeli no doubt. Bogs is just a massive loss because of his rebounding but more importantly he protects the rim better than almost any center. Zaza is mediocre at that, while being solid at rebounding. West and Durant are improvements defensively over what the Warriors had, Zaza is a big downgrade and any of Ezeli or Speighs >>> Javale of course. All the important pieces other than Bogs are still in the team though, all 7 of them. Saying that, defending at the rim and rebounding are two major concerns, esp the former.

first, barnes has seen time in the playoffs guarding zach randolph, blake griffin and other real bigs. Durant wouldn't have a chance. This is possible because barnes has a lower center of gravity and lower body strength. Furthermore, do you really want durant defending the paint? He isn't physical, nobody is intimidated and he'll rack up fouls as he isn't a defensive specialist. So for the defensive role i'd go with barnes.

Barnes sucked defensively vs OKC and vs the cavs because he was targeted with switches to play against durant and lebron. everybody looks bad against these guys. His defensive value isn't against superstars, but in his ability to play small ball while defending the post and being expendable foul-wise. His use was bringing balance to the team. Durant isn't a post defender against bigger players (lebron, love, thompson will all abuse him). Durant as a 5 sounds fun in 2k but in real life it'll be a bad strategy, it might work for SOME minutes in SOME configurations.

So really, durant isn't an improvement defensively.

bogut gave you excellent passing, screen setting, and defense besides rebounding. zaza might give comparable rebounding and nothing else. david west couldn't get minutes over trash in SA and if you think speights is a bad defender you'll think west plays for the other team with his defense. Especially in the small ball gsw style he'll have a hard time doing anything positive, as he can't set screens like bogut, can't pass like bogut, can't shoot like speights, can't play as a 5 like ezeli. He just doesn't fit. And while ezeli fluctuated a lot he was an athletic big off the bench that played with heart, which can always be seen in his rebounding rate. He was a valuable body that could run and was good for 5 fouls and rebounding.

also, javale mcgee is a net minus as his iq is nick young level, these are the players that will fukk things up guaranteed and they'll find a way to never win a ring.

[HenryGarfunkle]

I assume the majority of this thread is people picking the Cavs while overrating Garnett and calling GS soft.

I'm not in the mood to rant so the answer is just simply no. Move on. The king has spoken. No they couldn't win.

/thread

[Prometheus]

I assume the majority of this thread is people picking the Cavs while overrating Garnett and calling GS soft.

I'm not in the mood to rant so the answer is just simply no. Move on. The king has spoken. No they couldn't win.

/thread

[Smoke117]

I assume the majority of this thread is people picking the Cavs while overrating Garnett and calling GS soft.

I'm not in the mood to rant so the answer is just simply no. Move on. The king has spoken. No they couldn't win.

/thread

cringe

[SamuraiSWISH]

'92, '93, '96, '97 Chicago Bulls would slaughter these fools. Even with Durant. Screw make believe superstar pairings etc. The perimeter defense, length, and athleticism would be too much. Just too alpha.

[Ca$H]

LOL the Cavs would need prime Jordan in order to match up with Patrick McGawd.

[Spurs m8]

They can win with garbage Love, so can defs win with Garnett.

This Warrior team is so overrated - on paper they're okay, but you'd think you were talking about a 6/6 team....not a 1/2 team aye.

I know Durant has joined, but he's a beta choker like the rest

[hold this L]

first, barnes has seen time in the playoffs guarding zach randolph, blake griffin and other real bigs. Durant wouldn't have a chance. This is possible because barnes has a lower center of gravity and lower body strength. Furthermore, do you really want durant defending the paint? He isn't physical, nobody is intimidated and he'll rack up fouls as he isn't a defensive specialist. So for the defensive role i'd go with barnes.

Barnes is not a defensive specialist either. I'm not really worried about Durant picking up fouls as he has rarely ever been fouled out.

Barnes sucked defensively vs OKC and vs the cavs because he was targeted with switches to play against durant and lebron. everybody looks bad against these guys. His defensive value isn't against superstars, but in his ability to play small ball while defending the post and being expendable foul-wise. His use was bringing balance to the team. Durant isn't a post defender against bigger players (lebron, love, thompson will all abuse him). Durant as a 5 sounds fun in 2k but in real life it'll be a bad strategy, it might work for SOME minutes in SOME configurations.

I mean.. when they are playing the same position, they will end up playing one another. But there's a reason Iggy was often put on James, because he abused the hell out of Barnes. I agree that with superstars, everyone will look bad. But he wasn't a great defender even when James nor Durant were on him during those ties, so what was the point?

I don't know where this myth has come out that Barnes is a good defender. He's always been solid, though he was awful vs the Spurs when the Warriors weren't running them out of town during the season when Diaw was abusing him so badly that other Warrior players were coming in to help him, and both vs OKC and Cavs.

Your talk of balance sounds like you don't even believe what you're saying but hope that it's the case. Bogut was a huge loss, Durant on the other hand is a huge upgrade defensively and colossal improvement offensively. True Durant is a bit weak, but Warriors switch better than anyone. Green and Zaza will switch in the paint when needed, especially Green. Durant will never be a 5 with the Warriors. It will be Zaza for 20 minutes, Green for 10-12 minutes, and the other 16-18 minutes will be shared by West, Curlyjao, and Damian Jones once he's back. He also might be a good prospect. Warriors were lucky he was injured in the draft, otherwise they never would have come close to get him. Myers putting work as usual. I guess Javale will take Jones' minutes until he's back from injury though.

So really, durant isn't an improvement defensively.

Are you kidding me? Durant was the best player defensively in the 7 game series from both teams, while Barnes was probably the worst along with Westbrook from the starters. It's insulting to Durant to put him with Barnes, let alone claim Barnes helps the team more defensively. Barnes has been lucky AF that he played the last few years with all players that were all much better than him, and regressed heavily post injury last season when he came back.

bogut gave you excellent passing, screen setting, and defense besides rebounding. zaza might give comparable rebounding and nothing else. david west couldn't get minutes over trash in SA and if you think speights is a bad defender you'll think west plays for the other team with his defense. Especially in the small ball gsw style he'll have a hard time doing anything positive, as he can't set screens like bogut, can't pass like bogut, can't shoot like speights, can't play as a 5 like ezeli. He just doesn't fit. And while ezeli fluctuated a lot he was an athletic big off the bench that played with heart, which can always be seen in his rebounding rate. He was a valuable body that could run and was good for 5 fouls and rebounding.

I agree with you. Bogs is a huge miss. Him legal screensetting offered a ton, also he is a great passer and one of the best shot blockers in the game. But no way is West worse than Speighs, dude is literally the worst defender in the league. I'm not even using a hyperbole, go see previous comments on him I made during last season. He's a black hole that does nothing defensively other than a block here and there, but his positioning (and his incredibly low ball IQ) allow him to make Love look like a great defender in comparison. Ezeli would help of course, but because the center position is the main weakness of the warriors right now. Look, the Warriors ran a 9-10 man deep team when most teams run a 7-8 team for the playoffs in particular. However, Warriors still have an 8 man team ready to go. If McCaw or Jones ends up impressing, it will end up as a 9 man team. Of course unless Jones turns into a star this season which I doubt, the center position is weakened. I don't know why people make it seem like the Warriors are so far worse off depth wise compared to other top teams.

also, javale mcgee is a net minus as his iq is nick young level, these are the players that will fukk things up guaranteed and they'll find a way to never win a ring.

Javale is trash, I don't think anyone is expecting him to do anything other than win another SHAQtin a fool MVP award.