30 minute Lebron video and a totally statless case for him to be top 20 ever. Today.

[iamgine]

Well, considering Lebron just had the best PER out of any player in NBA history last season, it's really not surprising. Guy has a decent chance of being considered the GOAT over MJ when his career is over. He just need the rings to come along with the domination.

[Fatal9]

I think the list changed a number of times. I wasnt paying the closest attention.there is a perfectly reasonable case to be made for Kobe over everyone I put Lebron over. though id rather have Lebron. Lebron is unstoppable because of things that dont vary with how hot he is. When his jumper doesnt fall he can still get to the basket every single time he tries.

Lebron having a terrible game means hes missing layups. Lebron bad games are flukey. Kobe bad games are because he takes some of the toughest shots in NBA history and nobody can make them all the time. Lebron is a more night in night out threat to play near his peak potential I think.

Kobe is amazing for his ability to make difficult shots. Lebron is amazing for his ability to not need to take a difficult shot.

Then why has Kobe been the more consistent playoff performer over the last 4 years? In that time Kobe has had only one bad series, which happened against one of the greatest defenses of all-time, and a team that embarrassed Lebron even worse.

[barbaroi]

Virtually everyone with better stats than Lebron had them in a time there were more to be had. Rebounds....shots...all that. Elgin Baylor was taking 33 shots a game. You would have to expect more points.

Besides the point wasnt that Lebron is factually better than guys like Barkley and Baylor(though he is better than Malone...). Its that those guys get top 10-20 rankings while not being better than him.

Hes the guy building his legacy. Hes the age Larry bird was at the end of his rookie season. And hes already done as much as some of the 10-20 best of all time. Im nto saying hes done more. I dont see a case for top 10 or anything.

You're absolutely correct when you say he's building his legacy. And what all those guys have over Lebron is longevity. If Lebron continues to put up good numbers for 5-10 more years and never earns a ring, he too will be considered in the 11-20 range. Right now, however, since those guys put up numbers over a long career they are still placed over Lebron who likewise has no ring.

[Mr_Basketball#1]

Youtube is blocked at work. Do you have a dl link so I can watch it on windows media player?

[Kblaze8855]

Then why has Kobe been the more consistent playoff performer over the last 4 years? In that time Kobe has had only one bad series, which happened against one of the greatest defenses of all-time, and a team that embarrassed Lebron even worse.

Kobe was worse in the 06 playoffs, in 07 he lost in the first round doing nothing special against a team allergic to defense while Lebron drug his team kicking and screaming to the finals vs the Pistons, and in 08 neither of them had a bad series till they played the Celtics. Kobe had a better playoffs one year. And thats because they won it all. Not because he was just amazingly dominant. Lebron in 09 had a playoff run people would use as evidence Michael Jordan is the GOAT if MJ had it in his youth(and he had several similar ones). Kobes is better because they won.

The teams do factor in. I wouldnt trade Pau Gasol for the entire Cavs lineup outside Lebron(as of last year...dont know what they do this yeaR). Really. If the Bulls could have

Rose/Mo/Gibson
Salmons/West
Deng/Wally
Tyrus/Anderson
z/Noah/Ben

or

Rose
Salmons
Deng
Gasol/Tyrus
Noah


Id take the Gasol team. 10 out of 10. Pau Gasol on his own is worth more than Lebrons entire supporting cast.

[Kblaze8855]

You're absolutely correct when you say he's building his legacy. And what all those guys have over Lebron is longevity. If Lebron continues to put up good numbers for 5-10 more years and never earns a ring, he too will be considered in the 11-20 range. Right now, however, since those guys put up numbers over a long career they are still placed over Lebron who likewise has no ring.

Longevity doesnt put the ball i nthe basket. Lebron retires today hes no better than if he plays on the same level for 20 years. Hes the same person. People dont get better in retrospect when they add to their legacy. Unless its a situation like Walton where a guy misses years at a time and is healthy for like 3 seasons ever...fine.

But Lebron vs most of these guys? Not much of a factor.

[Kblaze8855]

Youtube is blocked at work. Do you have a dl link so I can watch it on windows media player?

I do for part 1 but 2 and 3 wont be uploaded for a while. If I started now they wouldnt be done till 7-8 and ill be at work by then.

[abuC]

Excellent post and great videos, that "Shining down" song by Lupe is incredible too, great music choices.

[Darius]

And even considering all that id like to say...

Hes not thaaaaaaaaaaaat much better than Wade. hes better. But hes not...Wade is top 60 and Lebron is top 20 better. If Lebron is top 25 Wade is top 35. Much of the sports world just doesnt want to accept it yet.

You have to take longevity into account somewhere.

Lebron played in the L from 18 years old and has shown (thus far) incredible resistance to injury.

Wade came into the league later and has been plagued by injuries (and probably will continue to be so) - that's why I don't think he will get in the top 20 conversation.

[Darius]

Longevity doesnt put the ball i nthe basket. Lebron retires today hes no better than if he plays on the same level for 20 years. Hes the same person. People dont get better in retrospect when they add to their legacy. Unless its a situation like Walton where a guy misses years at a time and is healthy for like 3 seasons ever...fine.

But Lebron vs most of these guys? Not much of a factor.

I don't think that's fair to say.

A guy that plays at a certain level for 20 years is a more productive, better basketball player than one who can only do it for 10 years.

I don't think he's twice as good but it does need to be factored.

Great post, by the way.

[Kblaze8855]

How do you judge someones ability to play basketball at any given moment by what happened over 20 years? How does a 20 year career help you win a game in May of year 6?

[1987_Lakers]

Career wise, LeBron isn't top 20 all-time yet, but compare 2009 LeBron James with other all-time great players in their prime and I think LeBron cracks the top 20. Think about it, what other SF not named Larry Bird had a better season than 2009 LeBron? What PF other than 2003 Tim Duncan had a better season than 2009 LeBron? '93 Barkley & '04 Garnett come close, but no.

[Darius]

How do you judge someones ability to play basketball at any given moment by what happened over 20 years? How does a 20 year career help you win a game in May of year 6?

The world is 4 dimensional - there has to be a time component.

Is this top 20 players based on careers or based on single moments in time?

Should Tony Delk be cracking the top 100?

[Kblaze8855]

Taking it to a one game thing is no different than people saying "So Steve Kerr>barkley" when someone mentiones rings as an issue.

Tony Delk scoring 53 is not the same as Lebron being better than someone who played a long time. You are as good as you are able to play on a regular basis.

If two players are equal for 10 years and one plays better for 10 more and the other retires...the one who played 20 years doesnt get a better jumper in retrospect. They were exactly as good as they played.

You dont get better because you play the same way for a long time. You get better when you play better. And you cant play better than you already played. All you can do is add to your legacy. which does nothing for your ability to play basketball while building it. No extra jumpers fall. No extra defense played. Legacy is not ability at any given point.

[ShaquilleIzzle]

Kblaze, not to go off-topic but how do you feel about the Cavs-Magic series if they do face off looking at it now, would Shaq be able to neutralize Dwight?