Gilbert Arenas on Kobe Bryant

[played0ut]

why did u edit ur post lol

It's not Kobe's talent that limits him, it's more about his physical tools. He doesn't have the body that MJ did. He can't palm the basketball, he's not lightning quick, never had an amazing vertical, never dunked too far away from the basket, but had sick dunk moves.

Kobe's the most fundamentally sound player I've ever seen. Imagine if he was a freak of nature like MJ or Lebron.

He was more than athletic enough. He's just edged out by MJ in strength and hands, so he couldn't bull his way to the basket and... 'weave' around multiple defenders in the air.

Seriously. Those hands.

@7:45 He lays in chest to chest with Olajuwon-- TWICE. Impossible to do without big hands.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iu92R-UR12o




And on fundamentals. They don't quite put him on elite tier fundamental wise.

@ 1:30
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_CCkatCABYc

Kobe IS fundamentally flawless as an individual player (footwork, hand placement, proper jabs, etc) I agree. But he honestly lacks a bit on fundamental team play. The right plays at the right times. (He's openly admitted that he's a willing passer, but has tunnel vision and only sees the basket. He insists his teammates they need to yell at him to pass. Great attitude, but other GOAT players don't have that problem).


What Jordan and Bird had were GOAT college coaches that emphasized fundamental team basketball as a solid foundation-- that's partly why there's that joke that Dean Smith (Jordan's college coach) was the only person to ever hold Jordan below 20 pts

[played0ut]

And for the record, aside from some of his bad shot selection, I don't see anything wrong with him throwing up so many shots (after Shaq was gone).


Jerry West made a good point about Kobe's 'chucking'. Kobe was the main scorer for the lakers, and a lot of other teammates were unwilling (or incapable) of shouldering the offensive burden. He said the Lakers needed someone who would fearlessly keep shooting even if he misses. Some bad shot selections aside, if you the 1st/2nd scoring option, and are scared to shoot after missing some shots, your team is done.


I saw Kobe in another light after that Jerry West interview.

[ImKobe]

He was more than athletic enough. He's just edged out by MJ in strength and hands, so he couldn't bull his way to the basket and... 'weave' around multiple defenders in the air.

Seriously. Those hands.

@7:45 He lays in chest to chest with Olajuwon-- TWICE. Impossible to do without big hands.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iu92R-UR12o




And on fundamentals. They don't quite put him on elite tier fundamental wise.

@ 1:30
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_CCkatCABYc

Kobe IS fundamentally flawless as an individual player (footwork, hand placement, proper jabs, etc) I agree. But he honestly lacks a bit on fundamental team play. The right plays at the right times. (He's openly admitted that he's a willing passer, but has tunnel vision and only sees the basket. He insists his teammates they need to yell at him to pass. Great attitude, but other GOAT players don't have that problem).


What Jordan and Bird had were GOAT college coaches that emphasized fundamental team basketball as a solid foundation-- that's partly why there's that joke that Dean Smith (Jordan's college coach) was the only person to ever hold Jordan below 20 pts

That's really the only knock I have against Kobe as a player. He is such a talented passer when he wants to be (see: 2012-13 NBA season, when he was put at PG) but he loves to shoot the ball more than anything. He did this even when he was with Shaq and they were winning rings, he still had his ego with being the leading scorer.

But fundamentally he's all-around solid. His footwork is amazing, his shooting form is elite, he has so many moves in the post, all the different layups & dunks he can do, the flashy passes... Defensively, his footwork was amazing during his prime, he could defend you full court

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UTITRJp2bhI

[riseagainst]

He was more than athletic enough. He's just edged out by MJ in strength and hands, so he couldn't bull his way to the basket and... 'weave' around multiple defenders in the air.

Seriously. Those hands.

@7:45 He lays in chest to chest with Olajuwon-- TWICE. Impossible to do without big hands.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iu92R-UR12o




And on fundamentals. They don't quite put him on elite tier fundamental wise.

@ 1:30
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_CCkatCABYc

Kobe IS fundamentally flawless as an individual player (footwork, hand placement, proper jabs, etc) I agree. But he honestly lacks a bit on fundamental team play. The right plays at the right times. (He's openly admitted that he's a willing passer, but has tunnel vision and only sees the basket. He insists his teammates they need to yell at him to pass. Great attitude, but other GOAT players don't have that problem).


What Jordan and Bird had were GOAT college coaches that emphasized fundamental team basketball as a solid foundation-- that's partly why there's that joke that Dean Smith (Jordan's college coach) was the only person to ever hold Jordan below 20 pts

right on. His 08 to 10 seasons were probably his best team play seasons, hence why his scoring dipped and efficiency went up a little.

[Milbuck]

Kobe IS fundamentally flawless as an individual player (footwork, hand placement, proper jabs, etc) I agree. But he honestly lacks a bit on fundamental team play. The right plays at the right times. (He's openly admitted that he's a willing passer, but has tunnel vision and only sees the basket. He insists his teammates they need to yell at him to pass. Great attitude, but other GOAT players don't have that problem).


What Jordan and Bird had were GOAT college coaches that emphasized fundamental team basketball as a solid foundation-- that's partly why there's that joke that Dean Smith (Jordan's college coach) was the only person to ever hold Jordan below 20 pts

This is a good point, but I think this is more about their mentality growing up than fundamentals. Kobe has been on a god-tier in terms of fundamental basketball skills, but it was his mental approach to the game that took a while to develop completely, and his circumstances played a big part in that.

Like you said, Jordan and Bird honed their games in a really great college basketball setting..while Kobe made transition from being the clear-cut dominant player in high school to being a skinny teenager playing basketball with grown men. He never had that middle area to merge his game with players that could hang with him, and ended up with an underdeveloped 'sense' of teamwork. Because of all that he fell on his face a lot during the early part of his career when he was so young, and then found himself in a constant state of needing to prove himself.

[played0ut]

This is a good point, but I think this is more about their mentality growing up than fundamentals. Kobe has been on a god-tier in terms of fundamental basketball skills, but it was his mental approach to the game that took a while to develop completely, and his circumstances played a big part in that.

It's their mentality, i totally agree.

Lebron has the most 'natural' mindset towards fundamental team basketball-- and he went straight to the NBA from high school. Jordan and Kobe are more individual players.

But the difference like you said is definitely circumstances. Specifically college. Jordan benefitted immensely from college. He said Coach Smith taught him how to be a man, how to be responsible, how to operate within a team on the court and off the court (he still needed work after joining NBA ), and how to lead.

Kobe didn't have that benefit. He entered the Lakers as an 18-year old kid and was a loner. Couldn't really gel with his teammates (i think he was one of the only rookies ever to snitch about being hazed). Wouldn't build rapport and didn't really know how to lead. But he eventually learned.

And even though he didn't go to college, it seemed to have worked out for him at the end.

5x Rings
2x FMVP
1x MVP
16x All-Star,

etc etc